we are arguin a point of the expasion Brehon made on the main topic a while back. we are perfectly on topic having previously established the "I guess you'll find out when you die" solution to the issue

Sorry to chang the subject but back to the main topic. . .

Does it really matter? We can sit and debate this until the end of the world (maybe not the best expression considering the topic, but, oh well)
All I know is that we are here now, what else matters? So for now it's real. If that should turn out to be wrong, well at least we had some good times, and if you didn't have good times, then well at least it's over.

sounds like most discussions of philosphy to me

again it all comes down to a certain point of view. Certain point's of view relate to all things not just color. From a certain point of view Bush may be the worlds greatest superheros roled up in to one with a side of christ, ghandi and buddha. From another point of view he's as close to hitler as you can get with out a dorky moustache.

So in our discussion Brehon is seeing the EM spectrum band labled as Orange when he looks at this site. But when you see it, you see the spectrum labled "Blue" but because you've been taught that this is "orange" you call it such

Worth, to try and clarify the exact problem, try to describe to me now, without similies, metaphores or examples how blue appears to you.

It can only be done in such a way as amp has, by defining it as a certain band of the EM spectrum.

I'll try to explain again; it is far more difficult to explain than I thought.

Each person sees colouts as a certain frequecny but may interpret them differently. You look at grass. You see it as green. When I look at the grass I interpret it as yellow, but call it green because I have been brought up to see grass and the colour yellow as green. When we swap brains, both of us are disconserted because you see a lot of yellow grass and call it yellow, and I see a lot of green grass and call it green, but we both see the same grass and the grass itself has not changened, only our perception of it.

Still clear as mud. In a storm. With a lot of fog. And a blindfold on. And chronic shortsightedness.

from a certain point of view it would be green but to other eyes it may be what we see as yellow

quote:

Originally posted by Brehon:
Ahh, Worth, a further question to ask. We can never know what anyone else sees. So, what I might see as green, you might see as blue, but because we were always told that it was the same colour, we see it as the same colour. For example, I have a plastic table. It is green to my eyes. You come and look at the table and to you it appears green. But somehow we swap eyes, and what you see as green might be very different from what I see as green.

But how can everyone have a different idea of the color green. You say "we have always been told that that was green" well then it must be green...if everyone in the world (excluding the color blind) see it as green then does that not mean that it must be green?

and as I said we all have our own perspective on the world. I don' think that except in cases of colorblind people the diffrences we be very wide more like me seeing a plain red where you see a very bright red. So more shades of color in diffrence than in color itself

Thank you for the correction faerie, and, indeed, for the understanding amp.

he meant if we saw something as the other saw it would it look the same?

quote:

But somehow we swap eyes, and what you see as green might be very different from what I see as green.

We see with our brains, not with our eyes. Our eyes receive the information, but our brain flips the image around and processes only a portion of what our eyes intake.

I just love this topic, it's such a brain grinder

I think what we all see as color is a rather confusing subject because we all have a unique perception of things so color should be different for each person. Mean while science tells us that wave lengths X, Y and Z show up as colors A, B and C in the visible spectrum. I think we may want to consult an eye doctor on this one.

Ahh, Worth, a further question to ask. We can never know what anyone else sees. So, what I might see as green, you might see as blue, but because we were always told that it was the same colour, we see it as the same colour. For example, I have a plastic table. It is green to my eyes. You come and look at the table and to you it appears green. But somehow we swap eyes, and what you see as green might be very different from what I see as green. Did I explain myself well? Probably not. Anyhow the question is, Do we see the same things when we look at your purse?

First off, I'd like to say that I just saw The Matrix for the first time last Saturday and all of your questions made me think of that movie. It's crazy...

quote:

Originally posted by Brehon:
Is all the world a dream that we experiance?

Could be...but, again, referring to the Matrix, I'd rather continue to be in the dream then some place worse. Yeah, that place may be real but, if it's a terrible place to be, I'd rather remain in the dream.

quote:

Were we 'created' split seconds ago with all our memories as they are now?

Now I haven't ever thought of that. I can't say that I agree with this. I am Christian, afterall, and I believe humans are all works of God - not just creatures created split seconds ago.

quote:

By this, does our imagination act a film editior for us?

No. Because everyone's film editor would have to be the same (except for color-blind people, I suppose). Because if you were looking at my purse, you and almost everyone else in the world would agree that it is green. That is not just our imaginations because imaginations all operate differently...everyone can imagine something to be something different. So, maybe some things are done by our "film editor" but some things, like color, can't just be our imagination.

Then again, if the whole world is our imagination, then color would have to be as well.

No Prob and any time faerie, always up to help someone fix their head on straight

I'll try to convince myself of this view point more often. Thanks amp.

You can never truly reproduce love in the true sense of the word, lust and infatuation perhaps but never love. Love is beyond the understanding of those who would take all wonder out of the glorious realm we exist in. It is above and beyond science, beyond faith and if you choose to accept the christian view point binds the very universe and our very lives together. How can you understand a force as great as that?

quote:

and in the end that applies to all love. We don't know why it happens or how it happens, we just know that is does happens and that the results of such are singularly wonderful.

I totally agree. (And I love that quote too!)
The fact that troubles me most is that the emotion of love can be reproduced in a lab, as any other human emotion can. How do we know what is genuine? Does it even matter? Should we just pursue whatever love feels good and disregard how it works?

not much in the realm of physics

Good old Albert Einstein. What would be do with out him.

when it comes to love this to me explains it all:

"No, this trick won't work...How on earth are you ever going to explain in terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as first love?" - Albert Einstein

and in the end that applies to all love. We don't know why it happens or how it happens, we just know that is does happens and that the results of such are singularly wonderful. It's kinda like gravity we don't know why or how gravity works, only that it does indeed work.