No, the debate does not end, because it has now evolved. You've conceded your point and moved to another opinion, but you continue to pass mine off as opinions as well. The debate has evolved into one regarding the definitions of matters of fact and opinion. Opinions are unsubstaniated claims such as "I like Britney Spears just because" or "A form of fear underlies every emotion and action". If you choose to qualify this statement, it becomes a matter of fact that can be judged right or wrong. But if it remains unqualified or unsubstaniated it is just mere opinion that has no bearing within intellegent conversation.

The issues I have discussed are matters of fact that can be discussed and judged right or wrong, true or false. For example, I could say that the Bills are the best football team ever. I could give endless amounts of reasoning making it a matter of fact. But if my reasoning breaks down and I am shown that I am incorrect, yet I still believe it, my statement becomes opinionated. So yes, you have your opinion that originally was a matter of fact proven wrong by myself. If you still wish to concede, I will grant you that and gracefully walk away.

Alright, I agree that your opinoin makes sense and you're right that I should have phrased it differently. But I still believe that a form of fear (better?) underlies every emotion and action. My opinion. Your opinion is different. All minds are different so percieve things differently. You are right in a sense, and so am I. Congratulations. So the debate ends. It was nice working with you, Stallion.

Scientists cannot prove evolution. If they can prove evolution, I will believe it. If you can prove your claims that fear governs every action, I will believe it. This is not contradictory, rather complimentary.

Even so, if the majority of people are different along with their thought and motivations, then some people are motivated by fear, while others are not (whichever you wish the majority to be). So we have moved from "fear governs all actions for all people" to "fear governs all actions for some people". This, I am willing to accept, although I believe the more likely interpretation should be "fear governs some actions for all people". Once again with these "underlying emotions" that you speak of, there is no evidence to even suggest that such a thing exists. You present an opinion, not a theory. I could just as well say that the moon is made of cheese, it would not make it so.

Yes, there are certain "subliminal messages" that cause us to partake in particular action and I will grant that this occurs in some situations, but certainly not all as every single one of my examples has shown, which you have not debated. I will grant that an underlying emotion may be there in some instances, but there is no underlying emotion that governs all.

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You say that you believe that all of our actions are governed by fear and guilt, yet here you say that everyone is different and so are their thoughts and motivations. This is contradictory, would you like to claify?

You are right in a sense. I shouldn't have said all people. I should have said the majority.

You still have not answered my question, not to beat a dead horse, about the underlying emotions that are always there whether you are aware or not. Or I could just be one of those people with a "mental disorder." Who knows?

And you're asking for scientific eveidence when on the Evolution/Intelligent Design board:

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We are continually taught the lies of evolution in school, yet the scientific community cannot substantiate their claims with anything more than likelihoods.

Now isn't the general additude of that a little contradictory?

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is true of some actions, not all. There are purely altruistic actions, actions done strictly for bodily pleasure, others for deep spiritual love, etc. Do you think that a husband who truly loves his wife in every sense of the word decides to make love to his wife out of guilt or fear? Or a father who truly loves his children attempts to save them from drowning out of guilt or fear? Perhaps fear of losing his children, but more likely out of the love he has for them that their lives are more important than his own. Or when a "good samaratan" runs into a burning building to save someone he does not know risking his life, is he doing so out of fear, or altruistic desire to help others? This man could have sat by idly and no one would have accused him of anything.

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And because all people are different, so are all their thoughts, motivations, etc.

You have just proven that your original stance is incorrect. You say that you believe that all of our actions are governed by fear and guilt, yet here you say that everyone is different and so are their thoughts and motivations. This is contradictory, would you like to claify?

For once I'm going to say this. I am drawing my own conclusion from my experience. I have no scientific evidence to back it up. But if people are allowed to think up alternatives to mainstream religions on this site, I'm allowed to propose theories. How do you think people like Freud and Jung got started? I'm sure they were laughed at (and some still laugh at them) but they certainly were remembered.

If you really think about it, you'll see that I have a point. Maybe you don't consciously sense the guilt and fear, but seriously think about it and tell me that in your subconscious, there are not options, in every situation, that you try to avoid out of fear. And I'm talking actions that actually matter to you--not like sharpening your pencil, picking a piece of paper off the floor, etc.

Also, I'm not meaning for this to turn into a "mental problems" board, but there are many, many "disorders" that change a persons entire thought-process. And because all people are different, so are all their thoughts, motivations, etc.

If you take into consideration my points, and the next time you make a decision that matters to you, you might understand what I'm getting at--that negative emotions fuel the human race. They are motivated to get away from them and move on to positive emotions. But still the negative emotions have driven them. Do you see?

Or it could be the simple fact that you have no proof to substantiate your claim. I doubt many learned people would agree with your position. If there are any that hold this view, please present it, or any factual/respectable claim that it is a pyschological disposition to actually see that fear is the motivation. Fear and guilt may be the cause of all your actions, but they are certainly not the cause of all of my actions.

All of what you said is true, I'm not trying to deny that. I'm just saying--simply and in very few words--that fear lies beneath our everyday life. It is always there, and in order to get away from what we fear, we seek happiness. Possibly, it varies from person to person. I am motivated to achieve happiness to get away from fear or guilt. Fear and guilt are often in the back of my mind. There are many psychological "disorders" that change how a person percieves guilt and fear. Perhaps this is what is keeping us from agreeing.

Greenleaf, I agree that in the situation you pointed out, fear and/or guilt motivated that individual's action, but you have merely given me an example, you have not universalized your maxim. Take the same example and say that even though you knew there was a big sale at the mall, you decided to donate the money anyways. You feel no guilt or fear because this is what you really want to do.

Yes, there are times when I do "feel the nagging in the back of my head" that "I shouldn't have done that" or "I wish I would have done this instead" but this does not always occur. For example, I got up and went to work this morning because I want to earn some money. Yeah, I was upset that I had to wake up at 8:00 in the morning during summer when I could have slept in, but I went because, more than likely, subconsciousless I determined that it was more beneficial to go to work and earn money than it would be to sleep. In this case, it was a utilitarian assesment of the situation where I determined which course of action would bring me the most happiness.

If anything, I believe the opposite of what you say is true. All human beings, by their nature, are motivated by pursuing that which brings them the most happiness (utilitarian concepts derived from Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill). If I have ample time to think about the situation and consider all the angles, I will obviously choose the course of action which I believe will give me the greatest amount of happiness. It may turn out that my assessment was mistaken and I regret what I did, but this is in the aftermath. The goal of happiness was my original motivation, and fear and/or guilt was the aftermath that may provide a basis for additional actions, but even these actions will be driven by a search for happiness. People don't act because of fear, they act because the choice they choose will bring more happiness than any other choice. Aristotle also believes that happiness is the goal of human action, although he employs a non-consequentialist approach as to how this should be accomplished. He believes that we act in accordance to our individual social roles. So that if I am a teacher, my duty should be to teach well for no other reason than the fact that I am a teacher. If I were a professional running back, I should preform all the duties of the running back position (running, catching, ball control, gaining yardage) simply because I am a running back.

Trust me, I believe that a lot of actions are motivated by guilt, especially decisions made on moral grounds (one need not look further than Christian morality). However, as I have demonstrated above, there is at least examples to discredit what you suggest. I'll grant that SOME actions are motivated by guilt, however, I have demonstated that at least SOME actions are motivated by emotions other than fear and guilt.

Moreover, we are not presenting mere opinions, at least on my end. An opinion is a statement not justified by any evidence while a fact provides evidence for a position. I have provided evidence for why your statement is unfounded and goes beyond mere opinions. The statement you have made you attempted to backup with an example, thereby moving it beyond mere opinion. If we were talking in mere opinions, we could not judge right or wrong, but since we are discussing matters of fact, we are able to apply terms such as right or wrong. Whether utilitarianism, consequentialism, or various forms of non-consequentialism are the actual course of human action, all of them deny that fear and guilt is the ONLY factor in determining action. Your own example suggests that there is more than fear or guilt involved in the process by providing such a specific and tailored exampled. Why the the person initially decide to donate? I've already provided a counter example to your situation that proves that at least in some cases, fear and guilt is not the motivating factor.

It is indeed possible, what you have said. And as we are both presenting our opinoins, either side may be logical. Though I belive deep down, in the human's uncounscious, fear is there. Perhaps not consciously, but do you not ever feel the nagging in the back of your head?

Say you decide your donating 100 bucks to the red cross. You suddenly decide not to because there is a big sale at the mall. Feeling bad once you arrive at the mall, you go back and give it to the red cross. So it was guilt and fear of what people would think of you that was your motivation.

I should have specified. Fear and guilt.

Fear most certainly does not control ALL of our actions nor does it underlie every emotion.

Consider the pure happiness. Take any moment in your life that you have felt happy. Was this moment motivated by fear? Did you feel happy because you were afraid of something? That doesn't seem right by any means. For example, one could donate to a charity for fear of the wrath of hell. In this case, fear was the motivation for donating. However, another person could donate for no other reason than the fact that he derives happiness from helping other people. In this case, seeking either his happiness or the happiness of others was the motivation for his action; not fear.

We can utilize passion as another example. People do things for the sheer passion or love of doing them. People play ultimate frisbee, enlist in the military, volunteer, vote, or relax on the couch for no other reason than the fact that they gain pleasure from the activity.

Please do not misunderstand me, for I certainly understand that fear does motivate some actions, but not all. Personally, I am replying to this post right now because I feel passionate about my viewpoint, believe it is correct and will gain some happiness if I can convince other's of the same. I feel no fear in posting this and I do not feel as if I were motivated by fear to write this. I may fear the consequences of posting this, but fear is not the motivation of my action, nor is it the base of my emotions. I love because I choose to love, not because of fear. Yes, some actions are motivated by fear, but certainly not all.