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Registered: November 11, 2003
Posts: 2336
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Registered: April 01, 2003
Posts: 1451
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Isn't pi just irrational?
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Registered: December 16, 2003
Posts: 361
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quote:
is Pi an infinite number?
No, it's just really long. |
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Registered: December 16, 2003
Posts: 361
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I belive time is never beginning or ending, like a circle. But I try not to think about too much. It makes my brain hurt. Perhaps I'll understand it after I die.
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Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 6956
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quote:
is Pi an infinite number?
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Registered: July 03, 2003
Posts: 1741
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quote:
There's a sort of security in not knowing things.
I believe that; it's on par with "Ignorance is bliss." |
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Registered: March 12, 2004
Posts: 445
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Ok... Pi isn't infinate, ie it can't have any value. It is a set number. However it does carry on for infinity. So while it starts out 3.14159 the digits after the decimal point just keep on going forever. Pi is the ratio of a circle's circumference to it's diameter. So if you knew a circle's exact circumference and it's diameter and used long division to find pi, you would end up working forever. Pi shows up in other places but I wont get into that, I'm off on a tangent anyway... hehe tangent... whoa... e^(i*pi)+1=0... trippy http://3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592.jp/About time being infinate... like I said... disputable on whether or not was there before big bang, and depends on expansion of universe. Then again I had that dream (mebbe) about it not collapsing... so. I'm gonna shut up now. |
Registered: November 11, 2003
Posts: 2336
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"""I am making very little sense."""
___It makes sense. People have choices, the choice to let truth affect them.... and the choice not to let the unknown affect them. I'm affected by both.
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Registered: November 11, 2003
Posts: 2336
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"""There's a sort of security in not knowing things."""
___Not for me, I think the unknown is a lot scarier than things we know everything about. You could say there are an equal number of good reasonings for the universe existing as there are bad.... but my perception of what's good isn't very broad.
"""Time is a circle."""
___So you're saying that the end of time matches up with the beginning somehow cancling them both out forming a loop that repeats itself forever? Do you think that space is infinite too?
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Registered: June 09, 2003
Posts: 5084
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Time is a circle.
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Registered: November 11, 2003
Posts: 2336
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___So are we all in agreement that whether the universe is or isn't infinite that "the concept is unfalsifiable" by man, and likewise with the concept of time lasting forever?
___If it is true that we'll never know for sure.... I think that it's just sad. I mean really, we are here.... but will never really know what "here" is exactly because you can't judge something's limits on a miniscule portion of it.
___What isn't possible in an unknown world?
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Registered: July 03, 2003
Posts: 1741
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quote:
I also daydream as if I'm writing a story, working out all the sentences perfectly in my head, describing the characters expressions, actions, ect.
That's very interesting to me. It sounds as though your thoughts are much more language-oriented than mine; I suppose it varies from person to person. Asides from imagined conversations, I very rarely, when thinking, work out sentence structure in my head. From time to time I think in terms of words and phrases, but hardly ever complete sentences. |
Registered: July 03, 2003
Posts: 1741
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quote:
See I think this equates to the lower and upper brain. Obviously I still know the concept of me being hungry, even if I didn't have a language; babies when they are hungry are the perfect example. But since the upper brain is more dominant in the human brain I believe what we call thinking is always pretty much in words, which goes on in the upper brain. Our upper brain assigns specifics to the concept of hungry.
But I still take issue with this. I don't think my thoughts are in English when I do the following things, for example: -consider the consequences of a particular action -solve a mathematical equation -read music and play the piano -problem solve I guess what I really take issue with is the seeming insinuation that only our primitive thoughts are beyond language, and maybe I'm just misconstruing what you're saying. You used the example of a baby knowing when it is hungry, but this doesn't do justice to the notion of nonlinguistic thought, because it is primitive and animalistic, if that's a word. The four things I mentioned are all very complex things that I do, and they also can be placed under nonlinguistic thought. I guess all I'm trying to point out is that I think thought without language can be just as complex as thought with language. quote:
But I can say sometimes I have had problems where I know something is right because I feel it and I just kind of know but I just can't put it in words; this is a philosophers worst nightmare and unfortunately has left me up many nights.
Just rehashing what I said above, but I do believe nonlinguistic thought can be much more complex than a gut feeling or a primitive urge. The thoughts I have quite often are reasonable, logical, ordered thoughts; they just don't happen to involve language. quote:
But also an interesting thing is why do we tend to not remember anything before we learn words? I believe this question shows that language is part of thinking.
Hope that made sense.
Yes, it's interesting, and it does make sense. Language plays a huge part in thinking, especially while in the learning process. But I think that once something is learned well it is open to all sorts of complex, nonverbal thinking. |
Registered: September 08, 2003
Posts: 2181
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Sometimes I think as if I'm writing a novel, or as if I'm telling myself a story...it helps me sort out what I'm doing. If I'm planning on making a certain decision, it's as if I'm writing a book and seeing how the decision influences the plot. Then I make up alternate endings for different decisions. I also daydream as if I'm writing a story, working out all the sentences perfectly in my head, describing the characters expressions, actions, ect. (and no, they're not dirty!) I don't really do the movie thing, though. Occasionally I hold imaginary conversations with people (even fictional characters) to get an impression of what they think of the way I'm acting, or their opinions on certain subjects, things like that.
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Registered: July 03, 2003
Posts: 1741
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quote:
But I often think in a manner similar to talking to myself, and that's in English. Sometimes I even think like I'm typing the words in my head, which is fairly strange. Don't know if this answers your question at all. Love, Jen.
Yes, I often think by talking to myself also. Or sometimes I pretend I am having conversations with other people: friends, family, a teacher, the author of a book I'm reading, the singer in a band I like, a television newscaster, etc. I don't know if this sounds crazy, but it can be a very effective thinking strategy. It teaches me to think from different perspectives. Also, I think in "interactive mental movies", as I call them. Which is exactly as it sounds. Sometimes I play myself in these "movies", but not always. Sometimes I am playing someone else's part, much like in the conversations I mentioned. For example, I might play the role of a mother or a murderer, a college student or a highschool dropout. Sometimes I become so absorbed in these thoughts that I go through the physical motions of what the characters are doing in my mind. Can't say that I think in terms of typing though. Am I out there? Or does anyone else do these things too? |
Registered: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1110
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quote:
While we're talking about the limitations of language, do any of you believe that you think in a particular language (I mean English or Spanish, etc)? Because my sister told me once that all her thoughts are in English, but that doesn't make sense to me. For me, thinking is something that can't be completely defined by words, similar to infinity. But my sister is very intelligent, and when I argued she insisted that all of her thoughts are in English.
See I think this equates to the lower and upper brain. Obviously I still know the concept of me being hungry, even if I didn't have a language; babies when they are hungry are the perfect example. But since the upper brain is more dominant in the human brain I believe what we call thinking is always pretty much in words, which goes on in the upper brain. Our upper brain assigns specifics to the concept of hungry. But I can say sometimes I have had problems where I know something is right because I feel it and I just kind of know but I just can't put it in words; this is a philosophers worst nightmare and unfortunately has left me up many nights. But also an interesting thing is why do we tend to not remember anything before we learn words? I believe this question shows that language is part of thinking. Hope that made sense. |
Registered: September 08, 2003
Posts: 2181
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My thoughts are in English, but my feelings I have to mentally translate into English. I don't think, "Oh, I feel sad." I feel sad, and think, "What am I feeling?"and then think, "That's sadness I'm feeling." Only not quite in such a straightforward manner. I also sometimes don't think in English when it comes to things like attraction or beauty. I might be drawn to someone or notice them and then say to myself "Wow, she's beautiful!" or "He's really attractive." But the feeling came before I put it into words. Then there are thoughts like "I need to finish my science project" which are in English, and AFTER that, comes worry or whatever. But I often think in a manner similar to talking to myself, and that's in English. Sometimes I even think like I'm typing the words in my head, which is fairly strange. Don't know if this answers your question at all. Love, Jen.
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Registered: July 03, 2003
Posts: 1741
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While we're talking about the limitations of language, do any of you believe that you think in a particular language (I mean English or Spanish, etc)? Because my sister told me once that all her thoughts are in English, but that doesn't make sense to me. For me, thinking is something that can't be completely defined by words, similar to infinity. But my sister is very intelligent, and when I argued she insisted that all of her thoughts are in English.
What do you guys think?
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Registered: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1110
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quote:
You're right that it can't be labelled as just plain "big"... but that's the whole reason I formed what I said as a question.
I understand what you meant by asking the question. But my point really wasn't about the word "big" itself but rather the general context of the question itself. No matter how you phrased the question it would still impose limits. This is because the nature of language itself imposes limits. quote:
Can you really imagine how much of something there'd have to be in order for it to be infinite?
See this imposes a limit. quote:
And since infinity can't ever be proven true because it has no borders or edges to mark as start or end points, all I'm asking is whether you particularly believe whether time lasts forever, and whether you believe space goes on forever.
On time, I can't really say because time is relative. As for space, again I can't yes or no because infinity is unfalsifiable. Obviously I can't say yes because how could I prove it? And let's face it at this point there is absolutely no way I could conclusively prove it. But now that I think of it I really couldn't be able to prove it false either. So the concept is unfalsifiable (for the lack of a better word) |
Registered: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1110
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quote:
How can there be such thing as nothingness? How can anyone say nothingness exists? By what standard does it exist? That's like saying that nothing is something, which is obviously false. Not only does nothingness have no material existance, it also has no conceptual existance. If you try to conceive of nothing, you always end up thinking of something.
This is more of a linguistic paradox, in fact the more recent trend over the past say 70 years in philosophy has been the critique of language and in particular its limits. I highly suggest you look into W.V Quine because I believe he hit this subject very well. Also the Science field of Linguistics also is very good area to look into; in particular Chomsky is one of my favorites. quote:
Does the universe keep going and going and going forever? Or is there an edge of our universe where existence simply doesn't extend into?
There would be no way to tell because ultimately we live a limited life. Also if it was infinite how would we be able to derive it as so? quote:
How big would the universe be if it was infinite?
See the problem here is the sentence already kills itself. Big would be implying a limit, which therefore can't be applied to infinity. quote:
What would be beyond our universe if it wasn't infinite? "Nothingness"?
If we are accepting the universe as limited, the best assumption would be yes. But also String theory has some interesting proposals to this question. The real problem I believe here is Language. No matter how much it contributes it still has limits to it. |
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