please explain, egyptianqueen

There is no such thing as a true christain

Genius it's funny you mention the whole thing about pagan beliefs being mixed with Christianity in the Roman Empire days of the 4th Century.

In fact, the pope has recently met with members of different faiths in hopes of combining something (we're not exactly sure what, but I can guarantee it will be the One World Religion that we hear so much about).

The Bible also predicts that the revised Roman Empire will give power to the Antichrist and the False Prophet.

Many have tabbed the European Union (or E. Community) as this revised Roman Empire.

History repeats itself but as far as Bible history goes, it's truly amazing to see what all will happen in these end of days.

Well, my thoughts on praying to Mary is that it isn't right. Like myfingerpoints said, you pray to God/Jesus, not Mary. Think about it this way- Mary was just a regular human being (although Jesus' mother), and that would be like praying to any other regular human being. I don't see how "praying to Mary" is considered honoring her. She doesn't need to be honored, she's with Christ. And the fact that Catholics praying to statues and figurines of Mary and Jesus (and whoever else they deem a saint) is too similar to worshipping an idol (like bowing to the golden calf) to be comfortable for me. I also don't agree with the Catholic reverence of the Pope. Likewise, the Pope is just a man. We're all sinners, and no one is better than anyone else in God's standards. I got the following from a booklet I picked up at my church about Roman Catholicism:
"In the 4th Cent. Constantine unified the Roman Empire by merging paganism with Christianity. Declaring himself Vicar of Christ, he elevated 'converts' to positions of influence and authority. These professing Christians brought their pagan rites...into church. Votive candles, holy water, vestments, images, relics, medals, and purgatory were never part of the apostolic church." (Check out Mark 7:7-13 and see what Jesus says about tradition.)
INDULGENCE-"The means of remission of the temporal punishment for sins. It is gained by good works and can be applied to the sins of the living and the dead." This is in direct contradiction to Ephesians 2:6.

The Bible says: "For you know it was not with perishable things...that you are redeemed...but with the precious blood of Christ" (1 Peter 1:18-19). The Cathechism of the Catholic Church teaches that MARY is a Co-redeemer! "...being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race" (494). This is most likely why Catholics worship Mary as well as Jesus-because that's what Catholicism teaches them to do.
The Bible says: "Through his blood, God made him the means of expiation for all who believe" (Romans 3:25) The RCC teaches that sins are expiated in purgatory through a "cleansing fire" and that we "must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace" (1030,31; 1472-75).
The Bible says: "He has put all things under Christ's feet and made Him, thus exalted, head of the church" (Ephesians 1:22,23). This says that Jesus is the head of the church. The RCC says that the Pope "has full, supreme and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered" (882). He exercises infallibility when "he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals" (891).
I could go on and on, but this post is getting way too long. Just something to remember:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." (Romans 3:10).
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemtion that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God" (Romans 23-25). "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28). **"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH." (Romans 10:3-4)
Needless to say, Romans is the New Testament book to check out if you have questions about this stuff. Any Q's? Let me know!

Well, the question was "Are you a true Christian" and I obviously couldn't answer that truthfully.

If I could, I wouldn't have come across so judgemental and for that, I apologize.


I posted another apology on YouthNOISE, but that's okay.

Christians should lead by example; it was Jesus Himself who walked and was friends with sinners.

As a basis I would contend that the trinity for some people can be useful in the way that philosophy is useful for some, but the rest of us just have a set of morality, likewise, some xian, or even non-xians could just say, what counts is my actions and my goodness, not that I speak certain words or bend over backwards to conform to complex theories of what God is. One doesn't necessarily have to understnad the entity of God, just the action he proscribes, that is if you wish to live that life.
Additionally, Revelation itself was a late addition and brings many new concepts into the religion that were previously unestablished as dogma. It was a prediction of the future in the vein of Nostradamus. It could be reffering to itself as a separate entity, more like a copywrite protection from altering his explination of his dream more than tlaking about the Bible as a whole. The Bible itself had not yet been created and many diferent groups were using different scriptures.
Second, given examples like the Apocrypha, the Gospel of Q, and Thomas, the latter two being likely sources for the four traditional gospels , must be considered as subtractions themselves from any decent religious work based on their near direct contact with Jesus and his sayings. Adding them would be considered sin, as well as leaving them out. It would also seem absurd to define as morally wrong a 'Cliff Notes' of the Bible merely because it doesn't contain word for word the book you know. Any translation of the Bible is bound to include or exclude things based on continual developments of our understanding of ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and other languages.
This isn't even considering all the scriptured and likely important documents the Catholic Church has in their basement.
The Bible we read is created, altered, and manipulated by man. The works in there were chosen from a litany for a purpose of dogma and controling theology. It would appear that the most moral thing to do is to find the essential teachings and prescriptions for action coming from Jesus and God themselves, which may or may not be included in said book.
Not only is it morally absurd to follow that but it is impossible. Furthermore, it is not even established as the author's intent nor adequate or necessary to the faith.
I would not conclude from this that Catholics are correct in venerating the saints and placing control in other human hands, but neither would I say that it is nor should it be Xian dogma to exclude alteration to the Bible or preclude from consideration the fact that it is not the end all be all of Judeo-Christian belief.

I always thought that the only true christain was Jesus, the rest of us are just trying to live a life pleasing to god.

I don't understand why catholics pray to mary either, it's so stupid. Didn't Jesus say "no one comes to the father except through me"? nowhere did that say "or my mother". Or when Jesus died wasn't the curtain to enter the holy of holies ripped in half symbolizing that anyone can go directly to God? Catholics are the one's making christians look bad, they are the one's starting all the religious wars and the one's that have no idea what they believe, they just do whatever the pope tells them to. People need to realize Christianity is not a religion, religion is something that you have to do to get to heaven, we don't have to do anything, Jesus died on the cross for us, and that's what gets us to heaven, we just have to accept it. Christianity is a relationship with Christ, that's all it is, not a big long list of rules and regulations.

Genius, you're a genius!

I didn't even think about the whole water analogy; I'm definitely going to use that instead.

I'm just curious, but what is your thought (or thoughts) on the whole "prayer to Mary" deal?

I've had a few people IM me telling me that they were offended, but if praying to Mary is not worship, then what is it?

Catholics say it's "honoring."

Uhh...

Okay? What is honor then? And what is the Hail Mary if that's not a prayer?

Thank God for YouthNOISE, but it would be best if we had more Christian viewpoints.

Okay well, here's my two cents:
A really easy way to understand the Trinity is by likening it to the element water. Water comes in three forms: solid, liquid, gas. No matter which form it is in, it's still water. The trinity is the same way: God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit (comparison made in the same order). God is God (you know, alpha and omega deal); Jesus is God's son (sent to earth to save us); The Holy Spirit is God working within us and around us. And I just wanted to say to Joey that I completely agree with what you have said in your posts thus far (the few I've read). I base my beliefs on God's Word (the Bible) and anything contradictory to that is not coming from God. So... if anyone has any questions about Christianity or Christ or whatever, then feel free to ask me!

Okay, I just read some stuff that could POSSIBLY ease the confusion;

The Trinity designates one eternal God in UNITY, yet existing in three eternal PERSONS.

The members of the Trinity are EQUAL in nature, distint in person, and subordinate in duties.

(so basically, it's God doing different things in three different forms)

As the Son is eternally begotten by the Father, so Jesus is submissive to do the WORK of the Father, yet equal in nature to Him. The Father is the source of authority, the Son is the channel, and the Holy Spirit the agent whereby authority is exercised.



Does this ease at least part of the confusion?

I still have work to do haha

Gemini, you're not being rude; I was called to "relay" messages that God wants people to know via the newspaper (I'm a reporter) and later on, perhaps a church.

Even though you're an atheist, you can see that I'm personally relaying these messages, but for you to even ask about the preacher deal is pretty awesome; I couldn't do this on my own (meaning someone higher up is helping me) by any means.


And to answer your question about the deities of God...

Jesus Christ, God and the Holy Spirit (a.k.a. Holy Ghost) make up the Holy Trinity;

I had a lot of confusion with this subject too, but Jesus Christ is God in human form (according to Biblical doctrine); the Holy Ghost, or spirit, is the actual spirit that guides you (think of it as your conscience).

God is still one person, but comes in two other forms: as a human (Jesus) and as a spirit (Holy Ghost)...

Confused?

I don't claim to know all, but I will try to find another way to best explain it.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of hte Son, and of the Holy Ghost;"
- Matt. 28:19

CommonSense, to finally answer your question:

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
- Revelation 22:18-19


I didn't know the verse(s) exactly, so I had to go back and look.

Hey Joey, I have a question. I'm obviously Atheist, so I'm unaware of some certain things you talk about.

"Jesus Christ, the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, is the ONLY God - that's out of honor AND worship."

Now, I was raised to believe that Jesus Christ and God were different entities. Jesus was/is God's son, and likewise, God is his father. What changed? Why are they now considered "one?"

Joey -not to be rude or cause any disrespect- but why don't you become a preacher?
What denomination -are- you?

Thanks Genius.


So Jesus Christ is a "mediator?"

Hmm.

Mishie, you said prayer involves honor, not worship.

Yet in the Bible, God Himself says prayer is talking with God.

So if you PRAY to Mary, you're TALKING to her as though she was a god.

Jesus Christ, the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, is the ONLY God - that's out of honor AND worship.

See- the thing is: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesian 2:6. Catholics have an entire ritualistic set of rules- confession, infant baptism, communion, confirmation and whatnot. You need to go to a priest to have your sins forgiven, when the only one who can forgive you is God. There is no simple "put your faith into Christ" deal going on. Catholics believe in Purgatory (which is never mentioned in the Bible). There are statues and idols all over Catholic churches.

tonight i had a lot of time on my hands and so while surfing the web i went to www.lifeteen.com a really great catholic site for teens and here's what it said about Mary and why the Catholis bible are dif.

quote:

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The Catholic Church does not and has not encouraged folks to take their attention or prayer off of or away from Jesus. The confusion on the part of most non-Catholics stems from a misinterpretation of what is truly happening when a Catholic invites Mary (and/or the saints in Heaven) to pray to Christ on their behalf....

Prayer to God includes worship (that He is obviously due).
Prayer with Mary and the saints includes honor, not worship....

. We are commanded and encouraged in scripture to pray for others and for one another. Where most people get confused, however, is that they quote something like 1 Timothy 2:5 speaking about how Christ is the only Mediator between man and God (which the Catholic Church agrees with, by the way) but they never take the time to read or really take to heart the four verses immediately preceding that verse, 1 Timothy 2:1-4.


4. It is important to realize what we are and are not saying when we say that we ask our Mother Mary and the saints to pray for us. Christ is the primary mediator, and prayers on our behalf to Christ by either saints living in Heaven, or friends living on Earth (fulfilling the command in scripture to pray for each other) would be called a secondary mediation. That’s what St. Paul is talking about throughout his epistles, like in Romans 15:30-32, Col 1:4,9-10 and 2 Cor 1:10…(want a couple more? Try Romans 10:1, and 2 Tim. 1:3).

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pretty much we honor Mary and the saints but we do not worship them and when I do pray to them it's more of me asking Mary/a saint to pray for us to God, because they are closer to God. I remember our priest coming in to talk to our class during religion a few years back but couldnt quite remember exactly what he sad.

as for the Catholic Bible being different from everyone else's is because when Luther broke away from the Catholic church he took out some (7 i think) the books because they did not agree with his new opinions and ideas, os really the Catholic Bible is the complete bible if you look at it that way.

So Joey when you said

quote:

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And any addition or subtraction to the Old/New Testaments (The Bible) is also a Sin

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doesnt that sorta mean your version of the Bible is a sin? (not tryin to diss anyone really im not

anywho to answer to the origonal question I would like to think I would pray for the terrorist but i honestly dont know
*Mishie*

love god. help others. trust n' faith. follow jesus (or which ever prophet).fear yourself.

i too can get aggravated with religon pushers and they're "savior" complexes. THEY may know god exists and the "plan", and what god says and wants, and what is right and wrong\good and evil, and how all people should behave and believe. but i have'nt decided yet;

if i do it will be between god and me; no one else. you can't tell someone god exists and expect them to agree; you have to let people decide for themselves. (it's the only meaningful way really.)

practice your religon. don't be so concerned with everyone else.

How do know that your bible is the "true" bible. Maybe the catholic bible was the original and yours was just cut short. Now im not saying that it is that way, (i don't know what came first or whatever) but you shouldn't put someone else down if they don't believe in EXACTLY what you believe in. There are tons of different christian religions, plus many others, why does there have to be only one true way

~Jade