People can't even make assumptions about what God/Jesus looks/looked like.

Nobody knows and won't know until He returns.

So to say He is Arab, Canadian or trying to describe him is a bad decision; if God wanted us to know what He looked like, He would have told us.

But if there's a verse or chapter in the Bible that gives this description, please correct me (or try to).

I believe that there is credible evidence supporting that Jesus Christ was an actual being, but the "miracles" he performed and all of the supposedly wonderful things he did are all personal accounts of peoples from that time period. There's no tangible evidence that can prove he was the son of God or that he actually performed most of these miracles/great deeds.

He could have just been a fanatic who wanted to become God, or some insane individual with his own beliefs. I don't know. But being an Atheist, I do not see a point in worshipping a something that is based upon myth.

ok. to clear something up, Jesus was most probably an arab in racial distinction: dark hair, skin, and eyes. (and for furthur note, most Christians who research their faith realize that the European depiction on Jesus is ludicrous).
peace, Loafy

I used to think that Jesus could not possibly have existed because I saw only two possibilities:

Possibility 1: Jesus existed, in which case he walked on water, made it into wine, and used the stuff to cure lepers.

Possibility 2: Jesus never existed.

I have come to the conclusion that the truth is in fact Possibilty 3: Jesus did exist, but was not the son of God. Not to say that he wasn't cool, it's just that I categorize him in the same group as Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gahndi, etc. Just because Jesus existed once doesn't mean that every account of his life is accurate.

Joe, I'm not sure if you realize this but you tend to come off as a strange mixture between a religious fanatic and a conspiracy theorist.

Outspoken, a set of two words:

United Nations

European Union


Then to top it off, one word:

Euro



This One World Government is not some mythical conspiracy theory - the whole goal of the New World Order is to abolish countries' independence and FORCe people to eventually accept a world currency (euro), world leader (we won't know until the Tribulation) and a world religion (often called the New Age religion)...

So for anyone to pass off the One World Government prophecy is a damn fool.

God is calling me? Funny, I didn't hear a thing...

So just because a person is influencial in what they say, they are everything and all that they say? If this were true, the world would be much more interesting. Politicians who claim they're the best candidate and win the vote, truly are? Only time can tell.

You use the Bible, the Holy Book of Christianity, a theistic religion, to prove there is a God? I find this rather laughable. The people who wrote the Bible obviously believed in the God they wrote about.
Again using "Where the Wild Things Are," just because in the book there are monsters, pictures of monsters doesn't mean monsters truly exist. Similarly, it does not prove they do not exist.

Frankly, I am skeptical of this Doomsday predicted. It just doesn't add up. I'll die when I die, although I must say I feel the day drawing nearer.

As for your little story about the world leader, it is merely an interpretation. I don't hold that against you, or anyone, but I am skeptical.

Catholics and other denominations seem to think Jesus had long hair, blue eyes, light skin, etc.

Nobody had cameras back then and paintings weren't that great.

So we don't know what Jesus looks like (which is why I have zero photos of him)


Many men have claimed to be God, gods and "spiritual leaders."

But none have been as influential as Jesus;

Again, I refer back to the New Testament (Revelation) as a source of proof that there IS a God and the Bible isn't just a fascinating book full of mythical stories.

The events unfolding are God's way of telling us that we better get a clue.

There will be a world leader the likes of people have never known.

And in order to follow him, buy, sell, do commerce, etc., you will have to take a mark; if you don't, you die. It's that simple.

This leader who will force populations to do this will proclaim himself as god and force people to worship him as God; he'll even be assasinated, then bring himself back to life.

The earthquakes, the financial disasters, the increase in crime and immorality are all just precursors to the final Hell-on-Earth set to take place.

God's calling us - is anybody listening?

So just because some person says they are God they are? Interesting. Then I suppose I was wrong to laugh at Ross when he told me he was. I suppose I should have left "God's birthday (Feb. 21)" in my planner? Oops.

I'm sure there was a man named Jesus, who was probably very influencial in the creation of this new religion. But to say Jesus is God, and accept that blindly is against my nature. First off, I cannot believe, in any way shape or form that Jesus was the fair skinned, brown hair blue eyed man I see so often depicted. That makes little sense to me.

CommonSense has written an extrodinarily good post, especially regarding the "best selling book" comment.

Joey, who is denying the existance of Jesus. As CommonSense said, it's a fairly popular name. As an atheist, I don't deny the existance of Jesus. I simply refuse to believe that Jesus was God. Or that there is a God, for that matter.

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Biblical laws are the basis of MANY laws here in the states...

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Some laws in the Bible are good laws, and are fairly common among societies and religion. Many are good moral laws, and just because they are found in the Bible doesn't mean they shouldn't be used. However, one must wonder if "Thou shalt not kill" wasn't in the Bible, would it still be a basis for laws regarding murder? I venture to say it would.

To those questions I haven't responded to, I agree (more or less) with CommonSense. Anything else, please ask.

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It's hard to explain, but I just can't see the reasoning behind the atheist argument.

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Then maybe we could try to get to a middle point, one of agnosticism.

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This man Jesus, who walked and talked with everyday people in Israel claimed He was God.

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So did David Koresh. Kings claim divine ordination. Emperors are supposed to be decendants of the gods.

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So is the guy lying?
Is He crazy?

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There is no way to know, but usually when people "speak to God" these days we lock them up.

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We can argue all the days of the year about Jesus being God, but notice many, maaaany secular "scholars" believe there was a man named Jesus; the Israeli people didn't just "dream" him up - or did they?

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Fallacy of the complex question. Sure we can basically conceed Jesus existed (in fact many people named Jesus existed and many exist today as well). Saying he existed doesn't mean he was the son of God. The fact that "secular" scholars conceed his existence is science rather than a concession to religious belief.
But, again, without any archeological evidence there is still a possibility that specific person was "dreamed up". Given the writings of Josephus it might even be likely he was real. And given the box of bones recently discovered we know that there was a person named Jesus in the area at that time.

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So the stories of the miracles and the healings and the conversions are just phony, made-up stories?

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The conversions obviously not, or else there wouldn't be Chistians today. But to assume that thing happened which, by definiton, are impossible, certainly puts the onus on those trying to prove they did occur. We might even go as far as to conclude they weren't necessarily "phony" stories. But like Greek myths, they are possibly exaggerations, or justifications of events, maybe tainted by the fervor around this person and people seing what they wanted to believe.

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The world's best-selling book is full of lies in other words?
I just don't understand.

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Fallacy. If the world's best selling book was "Where The Wild Things Are' does that mean that a kid really transformed his room into a jungle and played with monsters all night long? Popularity is not proof. It shouldn't be hard to understand. It is possible that it contains varying levels of truth and varying levels of "lies" or possibly just "religious history" rather than pure truth.

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A man claiming to be the Son of God lived 2,000 years ago, supposedly did all these miraculous things (according to the writings of the time period), has the world's largest faith named after his last name ...yet somehow never existed or does exist?

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His last name isn't "Christ". Christ, or Messiah, is a label he was given. like "Mahatma" Gandhi.
And you said it yourself, he "suposedly" did all these wonderful things.
And again, popularity is not proof. 2/3 of the world's people believe something else, butt hat's certainly not proof that Christianity is wrong.

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The Bible speaks of Jesus living in Israel ...remember, texts thousands of years old referred to Israel as Israel.
Israel wasn't even a COUNTRY until 1947.

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Israel, as you know, was the land of Israel the person, who "wrestled with God". This is why the country was so named. I don't know what you're trying to prove with this point.
He lived in Palestine too, and Palestine was never really a country.

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I'm just having a hard time believing the atheists' arguments; not meaning to bash anyone's beliefs here, but I just don't see how you can explain it.

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It's not really that hard to believe. Additionally, proving atheism is not a prerequisite to disproving, or at least casting doubt on religion.

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Jesus either lived and was a lunatic or the world's biggest liar or He is in fact God --- or the man didn't live at all and that men from generation to generation have been lying to us all this time.

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All three are possibilities. Another one is he was a revolutionary and love and God was his method of getting people to throw off their chains. Another explination is that he never really said he was the son of God, that was just created by followers or people trying to create more valitidy. Jesus doesn't strike you as the self-important type, so it is possible that whether or not he really is/was the son of God, he was a leader, a teacher, a rabbi, a good speaker, and a nice person who ended up starting a religious movement.

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Okay, so what you're really saying is that the United States legal system is based on myth?

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Where is "God" in the Constitution? The US system is a social contract (supposedly) that we all entered for the betterment and common protection of the people.

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Biblical laws are the basis of MANY laws here in the states (eyewitness testimony, sodomy).

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Biblical laws have no place in our system, which is also why we don't have biblical punishment. If the law stands teh test of reason and legal validity and is imposed by the right political body then it becomes law. It is not a law because God said so.
Whether or nt it was origianally based in the Christian tradition laws today are not justified on religions grounds and therfore cannot be considered the "basis" of our laws.

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And so that means our calendar years are based on myth too?

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Actualy the calendar was created by a monk named Gregory the Short (hence the "Gregorian Calendar") who calculated it based on king's tenures and other such events, counting backwards. He was off by 6 or 7 years to begin with. So our calendar, in a sense, is a myth, or factually errant. But I don't mind it so much, even if "year 2000" is still 4 or 5 years away. We deal with it becasue it, having been adopted worldwide, has a secular acceptance and is only used to categorize events and label thigns and not used to necessarily acurately determine our chronological distance from Jesus.

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2,002 years ago Jesus wasn't born?

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Nope. Modern astronomy (plus calendar error as stated above) could tell you that. But, if you're asking whether your messiah Jesus was born around that time, whenever it really was, then probably, yes, but so what?

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Before 1 A.D. there was B.C., Before Christ - so in other words, the entire time of the world is based on myth?

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I actaully prefer BCE (Before the Common/Christian Era) and CE instead of BC/AD, and the system is being used more and more in science as well.
But again, whetehr or nt you believe in it, you can still appreciate a means of evaluating time, and seeing as how it is the most convienient and universal system we have, we'll use it. Plus, all those zeroes in whatever year this really is (whenever the Earth started) would get annoying.
It's like Celsius vs. Kelvin. We use water as a base point becasue it's common and useful, regardles of the fact that absolute zero, near as we can figure is about -273*C

I hope this helps ease your mind and explain the thinging of those you don't understand.

Okay, so what you're really saying is that the United States legal system is based on myth?

Biblical laws are the basis of MANY laws here in the states (eyewitness testimony, sodomy).

And so that means our calendar years are based on myth too?

2,002 years ago Jesus wasn't born?

Before 1 A.D. there was B.C., Before Christ - so in other words, the entire time of the world is based on myth?

Hmm.

I'm just not buying it.

I think that your bible is about as credible as greek, norse, and all other mythology... they're all just myths. Religions come and go. 2,000 years ago or so greek mythology was considered credible. 2,000 years from now christianity will just be a myth, and the bible will be right next to the other books of mythology (assuming there isn't a new method of storing literature). "Truth" in terms of religion is always changing. Atheism will never change, because belief in nothing will always be belief in nothing.