quote:

natures plan is that people are going vegetarian

Nature is not a being, it is a series of conditions that results in the strong surviving over the weak and a species changing in that way. It doesn't say to it self "I think I'll send a tornado to kansas and I'll turn the fish in to a shark this week"

Ampmaster, my point is WE HAVE EVOLVED.
When a human evolves he changes his lifestyle. We learnt more about building and so we built homes to keep us warm and safe, we learnt more about medicine and so we built sanitary hospitals to lessen death around the world.
We learnt more about health, and food, and so we now learn to live healthier and prolongue life we stop consuming animal produce.

Natures plan is whats happening right now, natures plan is that people are going vegetarian, its a slow process, but not everyone had homes when they were first being built.

If you enjoy natural products, i also question what kind of products you use on your body, and if you know what all those ingredients on the back of the pack know what they are, where they come from, their natural source so on.

quote:

There is a time lapse left of seven years. If our thinking about caring for the Earth has not changed by then, we will have passed the point of return. The planet will start to become barren and will die."

[sing song sarcastic voice] evidence please [/sing song sarcastic voice]

I love nature, I love animals I eat meat how is being what humans naturally are (omnivorus) against nature's plan

quote:

No i would never eat replacements of meat or anything of the such, especially cloned meat. I like knowing where it comes from and what goes into my body, i'm not into all these preservatives and additives, i love the earth and food grown in and on the earth, i love being able to improvise on all of these and make yummy meals, knowing how healthy and natural they are.

1. *cough*tofu*cough*
2. I enjoy healthy natural products myself if I can get free range or natural (read wild) meat products I do. If I had the permits needed to do so I would hunt my own meat. This all makes for a much better tasting meal because the animal wasn't raised in such conditions

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:
In reference to your reasons for not eating meat, let me pose this question to you: would you refuse to eat cloned meat? That is, meat that never came from a living animal? The FDA recently approved the sale of cloned meat, which is perfectly natural, so I don't expect it to be too long before it's out on shelves.

No i would never eat replacements of meat or anything of the such, especially cloned meat. I like knowing where it comes from and what goes into my body, i'm not into all these preservatives and additives, i love the earth and food grown in and on the earth, i love being able to improvise on all of these and make yummy meals, knowing how healthy and natural they are.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:

quote:

Some people care about the environment and the world our children out coming into, others dont, but those who do wouldnt eat meat.

Obviously I'm one of the ones who don't much care. That's who I am. I have different priorities that don't include worrying about animals. But really, I never have seen the point in stopping your meat consumption. It won't do anything because there will always be people who will eat meat. It may make you feel better, but it's not especially practical. It's your choice, of course, but the environment is not going to improve simply because you don't eat meat.

No but the more people who "simply dont eat meat" the better the effect on the environment.
As Ghandi once said "We do not own anything.. we only share it for the duration of our lives and therefore our responsibility is to return it in good condition for others to enjoy. We must now see ourselves as part of the great global family... we must share the restoration of all that we have damages... in the end if there is no Nature then we must also die. There is a time lapse left of seven years. If our thinking about caring for the Earth has not changed by then, we will have passed the point of return. The planet will start to become barren and will die."

quote:

how can you say that you have tried vegan food and you didn't like it? Theres a lot of it out there!

Fair enough. I haven't tried every single vegan food out there, but I haven't liked any of the stuff I have tried, so I doubt that would ever change.

In reference to your reasons for not eating meat, let me pose this question to you: would you refuse to eat cloned meat? That is, meat that never came from a living animal? The FDA recently approved the sale of cloned meat, which is perfectly natural, so I don't expect it to be too long before it's out on shelves.

quote:

Some people care about the environment and the world our children out coming into, others dont, but those who do wouldnt eat meat.

Obviously I'm one of the ones who don't much care. That's who I am. I have different priorities that don't include worrying about animals. But really, I never have seen the point in stopping your meat consumption. It won't do anything because there will always be people who will eat meat. It may make you feel better, but it's not especially practical. It's your choice, of course, but the environment is not going to improve simply because you don't eat meat.

Tofu and salad, it's boring! I dont eat boring food. I eat adventurous yummy food. Obviously I've eaten both tofu and salad but not on the same plate on their own, its far too plain.

Vegan food is incredibly versatile, how can you say that you have tried vegan food and you didn't like it? Theres a lot of it out there! Okay my brother doesnt like tofu but he loves my cupcakes and cookeis.

I was a meat eater for 13 years, so yes I have tried meat. Whenever I ate it I felt guilty, unless it was highly disguised, I couldnt stand to look at blood veins or think where it had come from, if I did I wouldnt have been able to eat it. Thinking about it now I dont know how I ever ate a dead animal.

And Vegan pizzas can have cheese on them, only usually referred to as cheeze and is obviously not made from animal produce.

Some people care about the environment and the world our children out coming into, others dont, but those who do wouldnt eat meat.

And i'm not trying to insult you clpo .

On the contrary, I make a point to know what I'm talking about. If you could point me to what you think I'm ignorant about, that would be great.

quote:

And in response to us eating tofu and salad? .... Well lets just say i havent had tofu and salad, ever, in my time of being vegan, and I'm healthy. Vegan food isnt boring, its a common misconception for ignorant narrow minded folk

You're vegan, yet you've never had tofu or salad? I find that highly unlikely. Everyone's had salad.

Vegan food is indeed boring. I've had some myself, and it was the worst food I have ever had the misfortune to think was meat. No amount of flavoring will disguise tofu. Unless you deep fry it. And then it kind of defeats the purpose of eating tofu in the first place.

Boca burgers don't measure up to the real things. Vegan pizzas can't even compare to a cheese pizza. And tofu is just...tofu. If I could find the person who thought mashing soy beans into a jiggly paste and eating it was a good idea, I'd shoot them. End of story.

I don't misconceive vegan food. I try it and hate it. Just like I once tried liver and hated it. I don't just up and despise something simply because I think I won't like it.

Which leads me to wonder if you've ever tried meat. Have you?

quote:

Animal testing is a neccessity. Without animal testing we would still be stuck with many diseases that people don't ever get these days. Would you ban animal testing even if it could provide a cure for AIDS or cancer some day? If you would, you are no better than a guy who kicks his dog every day.

Apparantly clpo13, as much stuff as I have read of yours, you prove me wrong and obviously don't know what you're talking about in this situation.
And in response to us eating tofu and salad? .... Well lets just say i havent had tofu and salad, ever, in my time of being vegan, and I'm healthy. Vegan food isnt boring, its a common misconception for ignorant narrow minded folk

Reading through this thread it seems like many of my fellow activists are taking things personally, dont bother, its not worth it, trust me, some people arent worth wasting the time on. A lot of people are just rude.
I do not agree with activists saying "go fuck yourself" as much as meat eaters make a joke about vegans. It's all as bad as eachother, really, grow up and make a good arguement if you're going to make an arguement at all!
PLEASE because then you just make the rest of us activists look like a bunch of crazy pmsing, lettuce munching hippy angry folk.


I do agree with you clpo13 on your "nonPETA research" I dislike most of what peta has to offer, its emotional blackmail for the most part

You went all the way back to page two to take words I said over a year ago just so you could tell me to shut up?

Before you go about flaunting such accurate statistics such as "1 percent" and "most," do a bit of good, unbiased (meaning non-PETA) research and show me the figures you found about how animals are used in research. I'm sure you'll find that much more than one percent are used to test surgical methods and medicines. Do that and I'll take you seriously.

But without any proof, you're exactly the kind of animal rights person I was railing against last April.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:
You animal rights people make me laugh. And it's not a good laugh. Yes, it's bad when somebody abuses a pet. After all, it's a domesticated animal specifically bred to provide company to humans. Why beat it? It's just going to hate you.

However, when it comes to food animals, I don't see why anybody should whine over spilt blood. I don't plan on eating tofu and salad for the rest of my life. I like meat. And anybody who says meat-eaters are animal abusers should die. Violently, preferably. I agree wholeheartedly with you on this matter, pantera. Animals are not humans, even though humans are technically animals.

Animal testing is a neccessity. Without animal testing we would still be stuck with many diseases that people don't ever get these days. Would you ban animal testing even if it could provide a cure for AIDS or cancer some day? If you would, you are no better than a guy who kicks his dog every day.

SHUT UP! I don't think you understand how animals are put into pain in these experiments! Many are useless, POM actually makes bunnies get erectile difunctions and then tries to prove that their juice helps them, why don't they ask some men to come try it out? most animal "research" is for dumb things like killing sheep to find out what's wrong with gay people or teach a class that loud noises hurt you! DUMB! only maybe 1 percent of animals getting tested on now are for aids or cancer! the rest is testing drugs or things I just pointed out to you! most are for household products.

I'm signing it....people need to understand that animals can feel emotion, pain, suffering and have no help in fighting back besides our voices! SPEAK UP PEOPLE!!!

im signing it.

quote:

How about just free range meat? Sheesh. There's plenty of organic/free range eggs, meat, and fish out there if you look for it. I garuntee you can at least find eggs at your local supermarket.

I wouldn't trust the claims made by the companies that provide those products that much. Heck, even the "USDA Organic" label isn't all that reliable.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestne...rganics.19c550e.html
http://www.animalsvoice.com/PAGES/writes/editorial/news...actory_vs_farm1.html
http://www.goveg.com/organic.asp
http://www.free-range-turkey.com/

quote:

How about just free range meat? Sheesh. There's plenty of organic/free range eggs, meat, and fish out there if you look for it. I garuntee you can at least find eggs at your local supermarket.

I'm not vegan, and I do eat free range eggs on the rare occasions when I bother to go near eggs at all. Free range meat is hard to find where I live and way too expensive for my family to afford. Also, since I'm on a meal plan all summer, I wouldn't have that option anyway.

I tried to be vegetarian some years ago but my doctor said even with my eating good subsitutes my metabolism was wayyy to fast at the present time to compete with how little I ate. That's what I kept fainting.

We figure once I stop growing (in about 3 years since my growth spurts are so delayed, lol) I could try again.

quote:

Originally posted by finn620:
My reasons for vegatarianism are all environmentally related and are to free me of additional self-loathing and guilt, even though I know I am not making a difference. If I had a constant supply of wild-shot venison, I would be eating meat.

How about just free range meat? Sheesh. There's plenty of organic/free range eggs, meat, and fish out there if you look for it. I garuntee you can at least find eggs at your local supermarket.

My reasons for vegatarianism are all environmentally related and are to free me of additional self-loathing and guilt, even though I know I am not making a difference. If I had a constant supply of wild-shot venison, I would be eating meat.

And it's a very nice article indeed. But it still doesn't make me want to become a vegetarian. See, that's the thing. The only arguments I hear are either health-related (again, solved by moderation and exercise mostly) or ethics-related. Now, I'm not really a big animal person. I know how my meat is produced, and it doesn't really bother me. Never has, actually. Now, I would definitely not like watching any animal get killed, but it wouldn't change my attitude. I've watched footage (PETA footage, ironically) of cows being slaughtered and I found it no more disturbing than any number of war movies I've watched. It was probably on the same level as "Saving Private Ryan" but with less dismemberment.

Anyways, it's nice that you have such convictions. And I suppose it is a good argument. But not one that will sway me.

quote:

Originally posted by clpo13:

Honestly, I know not one vegetarian who can put together a good argument for not eating animals.

http://www.youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=2430
I wrote this article.

quote:

people who r vegetarians, are skinnier and healthier

I know a few fat vegetarians. See, the key to being skinny and healthy is called exercise. Your diet has little do with it.

Honestly, I know not one vegetarian who can put together a good argument for not eating animals (Slewinca has come close). It's all, "Meat is evil!" and "Vegetarianism is healthy!" even when there's no proof. The healthiest people I know are meat-eaters. They just eat in moderation and exercise a lot.

Anyways, until someone forces me to do otherwise, I'll continue eating what I want (animals included). If that makes me "evil", so be it. Better to be evil than vitamin-deprived.