Juggler of Doom- Jews can't say Yaweh, they say adonoi now, but yes that is basically a word for God.

Alright, I'm just going to say this... EVANGELICAL RELIGION IS RUINING OUR COUNTRY!!! Leaders of these groups have decided that everything that happend during the enlightenment is worthless, the great human achievements of the past 300 years are thrown out as sinful. Science, humanistic litterature abhored, and "secular culture" are all under attack. This is perhaps the strongest anti-enlightenment movement in the history of the world. It attracts those people who feel that anybody smarter than them is somehow wrong, ins hsort the movemnt is anti- intellectual. Look at our leader, George Bush.
Do you think he has read Plato's "The Republic", Machiavelli's "The Prince" or Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" ? Intelligence and learning are being stigmatized, a vast part of the republican constituancy is an ill- educated rural mass, hopped up on religion.

Religion and learning are not diametrically oposed! Look at Newton! A man of faith and a man of Science! God help us lest the Enlightenment be reversed and we fall into a second dark age!

JugglerofDoom: One word, "wow".

K... first off, before I forget it,

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Now, it doesn't say "In gods we trust." or "In a higher power we trust" or even "We Trust". Christians are the only ones who refer to their higher power as God (capitalized singular).

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Um... I don't think Judaism reffers to God as Yaweh anymore... so no, it's not just Christians.
But in any case, nearly every point that people have made in this thread is valid. But I don't think anyone is seeing the whole picture. To Aguagon: red's right. If you're going to blame parts of the election on religious leaders going for Bush, you also have to accept that it goes the other way. There's no way around it. People will always be led astray and vote not really understanding issues themselves, but only because they're told to. Hence campaign commercials that don't really give information.
To all the people who make the point that people's morals and religion are intertwined, and they should of course vote by their morals and therefore religion: Remember that within the Holy Texts, people can always find support for their own claims. So much can be extrapolated and analyzed that you can bend the religion to your morals, rather than setting your morals by God. And there are, without a doubt, at least a few churches out there with ministers who preach their own views rather than God's. Satan has his ways of diluting the Lord's word.
I think that if people have enough brains and individual will the participate on Youth Noise, they have at least some ability to think for themselves, and perhaps the worst cases of mindless or false devotion will not be swayed by any argument of ours.

Every opinion we have in our heads, every opinion we have is influenced by an outside source. For some it's the environment they grow up in, the people we're around, the tv we watch, the music we listen to, the movies we see, and even...the beliefs whcich we follow.

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Any more questions?

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Yes.
1. When was the 'In God We Trust' phrase added to the money?
2. Will you show me where exactly in them it says 'God'? (I just want to see it for the sake of seeing it.)
3. How come it says 'Creator' and not 'God' in the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence?
4. The Gettysburg Address was given by Lincoln. May I see a historical government document involving the phrase 'God' or 'Under God' that was written by a signer of the Declaration, please?

DWM:
Well, I would say the Majority of the FFs were Christians.
I don't think America for one second is a "Christian" country. Government cannot have religion, and religion as a form a government is doomed for failer.
Having said that. I believe fermly in voting what your believe, how else is there to vote?

GERBERGURL146


DUDE, for one thing, you must not have heard of Church and State. Get out somewhere; library, courthouse, somethin, and learn.

for two thing, I think we had a debate a while ago on whehter or not the FFs were Christian or Deist. I think I hold favour to the latter.

And seriously. This is not the board to be talking about political and stately matters such as gay marriage and abortion. This is a religon board, about the government, not a place to post your blatant bigoted opinons.

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Finally, may I see your source that this country was based on Christian Principals?

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Have you ever seen a dollar, or any money for that matter? If so, you will notice that every piece of US currency says "In God we Trust." Now, it doesn't say "In gods we trust." or "In a higher power we trust" or even "We Trust". Christians are the only ones who refer to their higher power as God (capitalized singular). Also, you may notice the words "under God" or just "God" appering in many important historical documents, the Gettysburg Address for example...

Also, a handful of the founders of this country were, in fact, athiests, but they still agreed on Christian ideals to base the country on.

Any more questions?

this country is nowhere near the same way that it was 200 years ago. its crazy that anyone could think that with all of the religions of people in the U.S. that we could base all choices the CHRISTian way. And even more...if a guy wants to marry a girl or a guy its his choice and the same goes for women. I am Catholic and i dont think that i would go off and do it but same sex marriage is the person commitings choice

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marriage is between man and woman, period, no if ands or buts about it. desisions that are made by this county should be based on the CHRISTian princaples because that's how we started: religion and that's how we'll end.

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The marriage thing is your opinion, so I can say if, and, or but about it.

From Zola on AOL:

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mar*riage n 1 : the state of being married 2 : a wedding ceremony and attendant festivities 3 : a close union -- mar*riage*able adj

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In this definition there is no mention of what sex you have to be. I will admit, however, that I have seen definitions (Granted, the dictionary was from the 1960's) that say it is between a man and a woman. It, like everything else, is human perspective and an opinion.

Finally, may I see your source that this country was based on Christian Principals?

true. there are many people who do things just because they are in their religious texts. but you have to take into acount that, at least w/ the CHRISTian bible. GOD calls us to holy. and even though HE does forgive our sins HE also asks us to follow his example. this country, the us, was founded on CHRISTian principles. i think that in topics conserning abortions and such that it should be that person's choice. and if they don't believe in GOD or allah or any other religion what's to stop them other than their concience? as far as gay marriage goes i think that the church shouldn't consent to it, the law is another story. marriage is between man and woman, period, no if ands or buts about it. desisions that are made by this county should be based on the CHRISTian princaples because that's how we started: religion and that's how we'll end.

It won't let me edit. Damn. Uh, the The that started the second sentance should be They.

I think those who ruled "in the name of God" weren't really serving the One as they should have. The misunderstood messages, took things out of proportion, etc. I believe the One is everything, good and evil. I don't serve the one true God, I just acknowledge the One's presence.

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You are forgetting all the tyrants who ruled in the name of god, though

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No I'm not.

Hence:

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I am the biggest defender of the one true God, but on the same token, I want everyone to adhere and uphold the US Constitution.

I don't care if you're the pope...if you violate the Constitution, you should be kicked out of office.

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Those who are not governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.

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as long as there is a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

You are forgetting all the tyrants who ruled in the name of god, though...

Those who are not governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.

And that's a fact.


I'm tired of all the secular self-worshipping humanists who want to use the ACLU and lawsuits to strip every aspect of Christian-Judeo beliefs from American life.

I am the biggest defender of the one true God, but on the same token, I want everyone to adhere and uphold the US Constitution.

I don't care if you're the pope...if you violate the Constitution, you should be kicked out of office.

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Why SHOULDN'T religion influence your life??? I am a devoted Catholic, and I want to lead my life as God would want. I believe that God put me here, so I try to behave in his image...If that is so wrong, then you can cry me a river, build me a bridge and get over it, because my beliefs and my religion are MINE, and that should not mater to anyone...

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i so totally agree with Meagan87!! thanks Meagan!

yes, i guess so.... i mean, sure i accept gays in society but gay marriages are not accepted. and oh, if you are not anti-christ then how come you are saying abortion is out of hand??? If you believe in Christ, then you believe that children are a blessing.... no matter how poor they are or how weak or how deformed... they still are part of God's blessings to us.

Churches need to be taxed.

From a study done in 1996 by Robert S. Erikson and Kent L. Tedin of how people of different religious persuasions voted.

A group of people were polled, 36% of which described themselves as "secular", 39% as "in-between", and 25% as "fundamentalist".

In favor of increasing domestic spending:
Secular - 61%
In Between - 76%
Fundamentalist - 76%

In favor of national health insurance:
Secular - 38%
In Between - 39%
Fundamentalist - 20%

In favor of always permitting abortions:
Secular - 57%
In Between - 29%
Fundamentalist - 8%

In favor of spending more on defense:
Secular - 48%
In Between - 69%
Fundamentalist - 76%

Percent of participants describing themselves as "liberal":

Secular - 36%
In Between - 12%
Fundamentalist - 6%


It seems pretty apparent that people should make decisions based on their faith. Even if one claims to be religiously dettached when standing for an issue or against an issue, it's virtually impossible.

I would like to think that people think before they denounce homosxuality or abortions, but it seems safe to say that many people make decisions blindly based on faith sometimes.