I'm not sure you understood the point of this thread...or at least what they were talking about(aguagon and redrepublican)

Why SHOULDN'T religion influence your life??? I am a devoted Catholic, and I want to lead my life as God would want. I believe that God put me here, so I try to behave in his image...If that is so wrong, then you can cry me a river, build me a bridge and get over it, because my beliefs and my religion are MINE, and that should not mater to anyone...

really. inetersting. tell me where to find this poll.

No, I was referring to the much-talked-about study conducted by the University of Maryland that found 72% of participating Bush supporters believed WMDs were found of Iraq. 75% also thought a Saddam-Al Qaeda link had been proven. Only 26% of participating Kerry supporters believed WMDs were found in Iraq, and only 30% believed a Saddam-Al Qaeda link had been proven.

You'll probably say that this has nothing to do with religion, but I thought John Dean's article did raise a persuasive point as to how religion might be playing into this.

i hope you are not referring to me. i have never thought we have found WMDs. ive said that i believe that they are still out there.

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Originally posted by redrepublican:
was it you aguagon who had a thread on one sided political pundits? i believe he falls into this category.

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Yeah, he does, but he's a helluva smart one, and he's at least trying to approach this from a rational angle. It's really hard to understand what other causes could possibly be contributing to the massive ignorance of the American people, Republicans in particular. Why else would so many Republicans believe that we found WMDs in Iraq or that Saddam and Al Qaeda were linked?

i dont wwant to disclose his name. i was told not to.
was it you aguagon who had a thread on one sided political pundits? i believe he falls into this category.

Unions tend to be more in line with liberal ideals. Granted, Union leaders shouldn't be as pushy as the one in your scenario, but considering you were only willing to call him "Mr. Smith", I'm skeptical that this is nothing more than made up anecdotal evidence.

When you're touching on something as personal as religion, however (which is not automatically in line with either party's ideals), you're going way too far. I think this article by John W. Dean sums it up best:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20041105.html

i have never, ever in all of my life heard such a comment by any church or religious group.
the religious Left may not tell you to vote for one candidate or another but other extreme left orgganizations do. Unions prominent.
Several years ago, there was a man, lets call him Smith. He was running for Alderman and was endorsed by the painter's union.
He lost.
During this campaign,(the presidential campaign,) mr. Smith was seen by the president of the painter's union at a Bush rally.
now as you can imagine, this did not go down to well with him. so he wrote him a letter.

IBPW
Local 424

Dear Mr. Smith,

Several days ago i was surprised to see you at the Bush rally in downtown milwaukee. this is troubling news. i hope you know that if you ever chose tor un for political office again, my union will never support or endorse you again. i wil pass this letter to ever local union so that you may recieve no union endorsements in the future.


He got that letter for simply going to teh Bush rally!!!!!!!!
Amazing isnt it?

I read the IBEW journal yesterday.
THey had a huge article in there saying how disappointed they were and how the election should have been decided on the economy and work. they also had a section where they showed the numbers of union members who voted and who they voted for. 35% for Bush, 2% for other and the rest for kerry. they were mad and i mean mad that that many people voted for bush.

i dont want to hear how churches have intimidated voters when you got crap like this floating around on your side of the philsophical fence.

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Originally posted by redrepublican:
it all depends where you go and you cannot generalize that the churches are recruiting for Bush.

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Obviously, not all churches endorsed Bush. The sane, decent ones asked people to take a good look at both candidates and decide which candidate they believed best upheld their morals and would make a good leader. However, countless churches, especially in the Bible Belt, came right out in direct support of Bush, and many even went so far as to use afterlife scare tactics. A vast, vast majority of Evangelical Christians (78%) came out in support for Bush, and many are taking credit for forming a religion-based campaign to get people to the polls for Bush. The fact is, you simply don't see that "vote for my candidate or you're not a true Christian" attitude coming out of the Religious Left.

they voted on values not on terrorism one.
i have to disagree with you on the clergyman preaching to vote republican.
where i go, they are very careful not even to bring up who they are voting for or influnece who they should vote for.
in fact there was some huge long article in the LA Times that dealt with the conflicted evangelicals in Wisconsin. My head pastor is listed in there as undecided.
it all depends where you go and you cannot generalize that the churches are recruiting for Bush.

That's all true, Blank, but irrelevant to the problem at hand. The problem at hand is extremist religious leaders getting too manipulative. I know that has its own thread, but I think it's the point this thread was trying to carry across as well.

You can argue that every decision is ultimately based on morals, and to some degree that's true, but some of the less-than-upstanding ministers and clergymen are preaching to their assembled worshippers that good values are synonamous with being Christian, and that being a "true" Christian is synonamous with voting a certain way. As a result, people are passing their moral decisions onto a priest or minister that they believe will make the right choice. These people think they're basing their decisions on their own morals and ethics, but they're actually basing them on a religious leader's morals and ethics.

You'd be surprised how many "God is watching you in the polling booth" speeches were circulating in the weeks leading up to the election. It's really disgusting. As Celtic keeps pointing out, Bush won because of American's fears, both of terrorism and of fire and brimstone.

Okay, maybe you don't get the point trying to be made. Every belief, every idea, every statement is based upon ethics and morals. It does not matter whether you're an Atheist or Christian. I am not some die hard, extremist Christian, but I believe in God and keep the morals and teachings of the Catholic faith. Every belief we have is based upon some moral. The fact that some people think we should eliminate capital punishment-Thou Shalt Not Kill-not just a Commandment but also a belief built into our human nature. Abortion is wrong-Thou Shalt Not Kill. Morals are not just based upon religion but personal belief. If you believe sacrificing another's life to save someone is the right thing, that's your moral. Morals were a major priorty in not the presidential election but ballot measures. Gay Marriage, Abortion, etc...All voted on based upon the beliefs and ethics of voters.

hmmmmm. a little out of hand? just because people have good morals does not mean that they are influenced by their religion. there are many repyublicans that are not Christians. its just hte few that are that you hear about. besides that, because they (voters, Bush voters) have morals that correspond with what the Bible teaches,that makes them religious?

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If something is based upon ethinics then shouldn't it be decided by one's ethics.

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Again,The question at hand is not whether or not these are questions that are based on ethics(or should we decide based on these ethics), but rather should religion be influencing the outcome of these questions and the government’s actions towards each question; especially in a representative constitutional democracy.

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when this whole country was founded upon the same morals n ethical views from the same religion as I?

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Oh please, not another America was founded on Christianity debate. Furthermore with this logic I guess we should continue to practice slavery, not allow women to practice their right vote, etc etc...

Because when your country was founded, it didin't have all the different peoples and religions as now.

Why can't I use my morals n ethical views that are based around my religion (Christianity) when this whole country was founded upon the same morals n ethical views from the same religion as I?

If something is based upon ethinics then shouldn't it be decided by one's ethics.

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The thing about the issues you have described: Abortion, Gay Marriage, etc. are based on moral and ethical issues. It is the same on whether or not we should torture people in war. The left says it's unETHICAL. It's the same thing. More than half the issues in politics can be traced back to a moral or ethical foundation and beliefs.

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No offense but you have put fourth a no duh statement. The question at hand is not whether or not these are questions that are based on ethics, but rather should religion be influencing the outcome of these questions and the government’s actions towards each question; especially in a representative constitutional democracy.
I believe personally we should decide on our own reason rather then scripture.