I do not support the death penalty, any more then I support a war. If you can take down a country non-violently, then it would make sense to do so. Why should this be any different then when applied to a person?

As much as revenge would ask them to do, and as much as I would want to watch them suffer; if we give the government permission to kill one person, they will be view that as a free pass to kill all people.

it all seems hypocritical to me. To kill for killing. Naturally, some have said that if we do that we're no better than the people that did the killing. Yes some people are psycho murderers... If someone were to say "have mercy. spare their life! just throw 'em in jail & flush the key down the toilet", someone else would reply "they didn't have mercy when they killed so why should we?". Is it so hard to take the high road even though you want them punished?

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Originally posted by Speak:
ok you know what the death penalty is wwong because
1: We aren't the ones who are supposed to chose who dies or who lives God does
2:if we are doing this because they did it to someone else look in the mirror your no better then they are
3:if they are a threat to the WORLD yes its right but to one person no
4:would you want to die if you did this you wouldn't get to see your family for the next at least 20-40 years
and 5: we should be making them feel guilty for who they killed and why they killed them give them PRISON FOR LIFE!!!

I completly agree with all of that. I know murder is not even comparable to kciking, but...
Let's say Suzy kicks Billy in the shin. Most parents and others would say that Billy can't kick Suzy back. But that's what's happening with murder. You kill someone, they kill you, we're sinking down to the murderer's level.
Plus, some people look at it as getting the easy way out. If you get killed, you don't have to sit in jail for the rest of your life.

Yeah, saying put the scum into jail for the rest of their life is all very good punishment/revenge-wise. But it is not efficient. Societies very worst scum should be killed as soon as they are caught having committed an appropriate crime.

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if we are doing this because they did it to someone else look in the mirror your no better then they are

Now as long as society can stave of the affliction which causes people to say things like this, society will have a chance to maintain civilisation.
Perhaps someone breaks into you home with a weapon, and you refuse to shoot them and save your family, because "you would be no better than them". Thats the way to behave, isn't it?

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We aren't the ones who are supposed to chose who dies or who lives God does

Indeed, we are here to do the work of god

you know what when they are rotting in jail they are thinking about what they did to each and every person no matter who it was ya they might not of felt guilt before but believe me they will fell it and they will feel it forever

Touché. Yet, if you're going to distinguish between Jews and Christians, make sure you do so in the first place, such as the names of their holy books?

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The Old Testament does say to take an eye for an eye.

This principal changed when Jesus arrived. The OT is mostly irrelevent to us.

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and may very well end up hanging themselves because they "feel so bad"

You really think people who do shit like that "feel bad" for their actions?

Well for those who think the death penalty is an easy out and the person dies instead of serving their sentence, they aren't killed immediately, death row as they call it, what better justice to a creepy 32 year old man that has raped and murdered oh so many children? Think of what they have done and know that they are going to pay for it very soon. But if they are given the life sentence (which is given a hell of a lot more then the death sentence) they have the rest of their life to think upon it and may very well end up hanging themselves because they "feel so bad" but in prison there are things to take up time, it's not all time out where they go in a corner and think about what they've done.. A murderer can go into prison thinking what he did was just and really it wasn't and is sometimes able to get out 20 or so years later...

I'm for the death sentence in just cases,
but as for how they do it is another story. Lethal injection is the most humane way to do it. The Texan favorite, The chair, or being shot is wrong. And thank god they haven't used the gallows since I don't know how long... Sadam doesn't count, that wasn't in the US.

The Old Testament does say to take an eye for an eye. God didn't seem to have a problem with that.

The Commandments may say to not murder, but what exactly is murder? Killing an innocent person (for the most part). I think we can all agree that criminals are anything but innocent.

quote:

Originally posted by Speak:
ok you know what the death penalty is wwong because
1: We aren't the ones who are supposed to chose who dies or who lives God does
2:if we are doing this because they did it to someone else look in the mirror your no better then they are
3:if they are a threat to the WORLD yes its right but to one person no
4:would you want to die if you did this you wouldn't get to see your family for the next at least 20-40 years
and 5: we should be making them feel guilty for who they killed and why they killed them give them PRISON FOR LIFE!!!

i agree completely with you....we should NOT KILL them, they should if anything, be put in jail for life, not murdered for murdering someone else....it's like saying...you did this, so i'm gonna do it back...and it goes back and forth, it just doesnt make sense.....God says "do not murder" that is murder.....killing people when you could just put them on lock down for life......i believe people can change, but how can they ever hear about God, and change their life around, if they are killed????? Murder is NEVER the solution in my opinion

Brehon, it's that kind of additude that I think makes people not want to listen to groups like the UN. We're youth. Do you think we have any say right now, in whether it is legal or not? No. Nor can we make our government listen to the UN. Don't judge us based on what the previous generations have done. Please.

But on this topic, of course it's immoral, but that's never going to stop people from wanting justice.

Now, I know that this is a subject that is very evocative, and very provocative. I know that various people on this site have been directly effected by terrible crimes; crimes of hate, crimes of murder, crimes of rape. And I think that it is important, in this very emotional matter, that we take up as much objectivity as is possible. I know that people who have experienced these crimes first hand have experienced emotions that I personally hope never to face. I know that you rage against the criminals that commited these acts.

It is important to discard that rage. Instead, weigh up the arguments morally. Can the killing of an individual at the hands of the state be justified? Does the state have the autority and the right to do this? The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which should be a standard for all of govermental conduct, suggests that the death penalty is an immoral action, and that the state should not implement it as a measure of punishment. But hey, you're Americans. When did you ever listen to the UN?

1. I'm scared that we share a name.
2. It actually does make sense. In a LOGICAL WAY. And comparing kicking to murder- MURDER- is dumb.

I agree! Why should we kill someone because they killed someone else? That's like saying because little Suzy kicked Billy, Billy can now kick Suzy back. IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!!!

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Thats easy for you to say Brehon, but have you ever been in a situation where you've had somebody hurt you, or somebody you love and you KNOW that they'll be back out on the street.

I have, and that's one of the reasons I support the death penalty, because in only a few twenty years if the bastard lives that long, he'll be out, and he might come for us, or more specifically, my mom. Her best friend was murdered in cold blood by her husband, and he methodically watched her bleed to death, doing nothing. He didn't get the death penalty. He didn't even get life in prison. What he did get is the potential to keep living and to kill other people. Fucks like that shouldn't be able to breathe.

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Arg, deleted

Amazing argument, Glove. I'm speechless. I don't know what to say... You brought tears to my eyes with your astounding logic and amazing arguments. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Arg, deleted

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Thats easy for you to say Brehon, but have you ever been in a situation where you've had somebody hurt you, or somebody you love and you KNOW that they'll be back out on the street.

I'm British. Even if they had they wouldn't be executed and I would be quite happy for that to be the case. Otherwise I wouldn't report the crime. I don't want blood on my nice clean hands.

Thats easy for you to say Brehon, but have you ever been in a situation where you've had somebody hurt you, or somebody you love and you KNOW that they'll be back out on the street.

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once you rape someone or shoot a person in cold blood, you give up your humanity.

This is a commonly used argument on this site, but I really think that the idea of stipping someone of thier humanity is a flawed one. It's just that the idea that it is possible to remove someones humanity reminds me rather of the Nazis.