Not involving politics directly, but I'm interested just the same. Below is a summed-up, compressed version of SOME of what I believe (not nearly all), politically and otherwise. I want to see what others have to say as well.

Abortion:Ok in case of rape, otherwise...still in debate.
Gay Marriage:Civil unions are ok. Otherwise, no. And I have reasons.
Bush:He's an alright guy. Hasn't made all the best decisons, but hey, who has?
Kerry:Too wussy for my tastes. Flip flops too much. Suspicous of him in general.
Nuclear Weapons:We shouldn't have any, and neither should any country. I am extremely against the use of any kind of nulcear weapon.
Right Wing Extremists:Kind of scary. Stupid in general.
Left Wing Extremists:Annoying. Twist facts.
Vegetarians:I am one.
Environmental/Species Protection:Strongly for.
Women's Rights:Extremely for. I've been accused of being a slight feminist.
Gun Rights:Law abiding citizens should have them. If guns are ever legally banned, only criminals will get them. And they will get them.
Peace:Will never exist. Sounds pessimistic but I believe it to be true.
Foreign Policy:More money should be going towards funding AIDS help in Africa. The reason Africa is not getting the supplies they need for the epidemic is because US medicinal providers refuse to sell them any product that is not name brand, even though the off-brands are 1/5 of the price. It's sick.
Daria:Best show ever. Period.

And that's all I can think of for the moment. But I'll be adding more.

Abortiony...still in conflict on this one, i think im gonna have to say im pro-adoption...improve that system(?) and maybe abortion wont be as much of an adoption...is 9 months that much time to give for someone elses life?
Gay Marriage:let them marry.its constitutionally wrong to deny someone something that will give them happiness, obviously they think it will add to their happiness, it doesnt affect the rest of us, and the government has no right to define marriage.
Bush:I really dont like him, mostly because he went into iraq for one reason, then all of a sudden for another reason. too flip-floppy
Kerry:I'm willing to give anybody with new plans a chance...and his ideas seem good, i always wonder how much troubvle he will have carrying out his ideas
Nuclear Weapons:we can never erase it...we have to keep the technology so that we can warn future generations not to use it
Right Wing Extremists:definitely scary, the only one i know was really uninformed adn wanted to nuke the amish so i am now wary
Left Wing Extremists:can be closeminded.
Vegetarians:if i only had the self-control
Environmental/Species Protection:Strongly for, needs to be a worldwide effort.
Women's Rights:Extremely for. I'm probably a feminist who hasnt taken the time to realize it.
Gun Rights:just know who has guns, make them safer, like fingerprint recognition so that kids dont shoot themselves on accident, etc..
Peace:If we stop believing in it, we have nothing to hope for, nothing to work for.
Foreign Policy:The US and all the other countries need to MAKE the UN work how it is supposed to, and get all the humanitarian need to wherever it is needed, and address oppressive governments, enforcing the International declaration of rights. The US can't fight a 3 front war (even a 2 front war, von schlieffen is rolling over in his grave) so we cant go into Sudan to get rid of that regime, but that problem needs to be addressed.

Women's Rights:Extremely for. I've been accused of being a slight feminist.

don't be "accused" of being a slight feminist, be proud

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It's not for old white men to tell women/girls (because they DO get abortions) that they can't choose the direction in which their life goes.

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Agreed. This is an issue that regardless of anyone's personal feelings or opinions will most likely never be settled anyway, so people should just mind their own business. In my opinion.

Yeah, I guess I do agree with what you two are saying, Aguagon and frostedbuttelies. A long time ago, I posted quite a bit on YouthNoise under a different name, but found myself "snapping" more and more often and then just left because I felt I was wasting my time. I came back recently just for a change and to see if it would be fun again. Turns out that it is, though I'm staying out of heated arguments for the reasons I put in my first post on this thread.

I didn't really think about the undecided earlier though, Aguagon. It's a good point, and gives reason to all the debates where neither side ever gives in. These endless arguments may change minds after all. Too bad we don't know how many, since those "undecideds" never announce that they now agree with one side. Well, with that said, I'll quit interrupting this thread with off-topic posts and be at peace.

So...yea, same comperssed version as the others:

Abortion- While I won't use it, I believe that there are times and reasons where it should be available to people. It's not for old white men to tell women/girls (because they DO get abortions) that they can't choose the direction in which their life goes.

Gay Marraige- Why shouldn't homosexuals marry. I really don't understand how it can be immoral or devaluing our society if people act as who they are and the way they are born. Those who are against just seem to be biggoted.

Kerry- Not my first choice. I actually really liked Howard Dean. But it happens. I support him, and he'll do best for us middle classes and not just for the top 0.1% of the nation.

Bush- A fool. A lying fool. Me really makes me want to hit my head against a wall.'Nuff said.

Right-wingers- Biggoted, narrow minded jerks.

Left-wingers- Are we talking socialism? Fun stuff, sometimes a little radical, but it happens.

Vegetarians- I respect you. I tried it for a while. I didn't last as one (lent) But it was interesting...

Environment- Tree hugging is fun

Womens rights- WAY FOR...SEE ABORTION.

Guns- We need safety laws. We need to lessen the number of guns out there. And for those of you confused. The Bill of Rights refers to an organized militia, and honestly I don't think there are many militias left in the US.

Peace- I'm pessimistic...

Foriegn Policy- GET BUSH OUT

I <3 West Wing

Lanna

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What do you want? A cookie?

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Simply stating a fact. Don't get your panties in a twist.

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What the **** is wrong with you? S/he was asking a simple question.

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No, she was not asking a simple question; she was asking an idiotic question which I take offense at as a vegetarian and environmentalist for reasons that I do not feel compelled to explain to you since you have already proven your idioticy without anyone else's help. Bravo!

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How about, next time, you remove your head from your *** before speaking.

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*laughs at your inane display* Oookay there. How about you find yourself a brain cell before attempting to intiate a debate with me?

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Originally posted by Flare:
Our whole argument scheme on this site seems flawed to me. As far as I can tell, nobody ever actually convinces the person they're arguing against of their opinion. Debates rage, with both sides (sometimes) giving good evidence, but in the end, nobody wins. Never does one side say, "Oh, I never thought of it like that. I guess you are right!"

In this case, why are we here? To know that others are rooting for us as we grind an ignorant person's opinion into the dirt? Surely we're trying to be more productive than that. But like I said, in the end, nothing is accomplished.

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I think it's true that you're never going to win over the person you're debating against, and the support of those already on your side won't really get you any further. However, this leaves out the surprisingly large group of politically undecided people who visit this site. When you come off sounding more intelligent and thorough than your debating opponent, your side becomes more appealing to those who've yet to make up their minds.

I agree, though, that the more respectful you are, the better you'll sound. Although frosted and Celtic raise a good point: eventually, you're just gonna snap.

Crap. I should probably read my posts before i post them.

"A see student is average"

I meant a C student. A C student is average.

Bushism of the day:
"In an economic recession, I'd rather that in order to get out of this recession, that the people be spending their money, not the government trying to figure out how to spend the people's money."—Tampa, Fla., Feb. 16, 2004

"And I can give you links showing Kerry betrayed his fellow soldiers, including by those who served near him."

Ooh, thats great. Thats exactly what we need, the rebirth of the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth." Because we all know how "truthful" they were. Or are you talking about how he protested the war? I would respond but Aguagon read my mind.

"I'd rather have a C-student as prez than that."

I dont even know what to say to this. A see student is average. America deserves a president who is better than just "average."

" What's next, selling out to Osama bin Laden? "

What does this have to do with anything?

Bushism of the day:
"In an economic recession, I'd rather that in order to get out of this recession, that the people be spending their money, not the government trying to figure out how to spend the people's money."—Tampa, Fla., Feb. 16, 2004

Betrayed his fellow soldiers, tried to bring them home from a horrible war in which America's presence was doing no good at all...these appear to be the same thing to you. Kerry was not "betraying" his fellow soldiers, he was trying to bring them home. Did he once condemn the soldiers for fighting? Did he once belittle his fellow soldiers' accomplishment? And your leap of logic to fear of him selling out to Osama Bin Laden is on the same page as me announcing that since Bush is trying to deny women the right to choose, he will surely soon try to deny women the right to breathe.

In summary:
Fact: Bush had a C-average in his Freshman year of high school
Opinion Severely Lacking Logic: Kerry betrayed his fellow soldiers

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And HERE it says "...Bush's Yale transcript shows that he was a C student. He got particularly poor grades in political science and economics. In his freshman year -- the only year for which The New Yorker obtained rankings

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And I can give you links showing Kerry betrayed his fellow soldiers, including by those who served near him. I'd rather have a C-student as prez than that. What's next, selling out to Osama bin Laden?

Abortion:I used to think this was Ok. Actually, what's getting to me are its advocates. They just seem so...pro-death.

Gay Marriage: Moot point. Gays will still be able to have civil unions in most places. Gays cannot technically marry anyway, since either the definition or common understanding of marriage for the last several thousand years (at least) has been defined as being between a man and a woman.

Bush: Well said. Not my top choice for prez, but Kerry's about my last. I could have gone with Dean. He was a liberal, but he knew that far-left social policy was killing his party. So they nixed him. Bush is too liberal on most domestic issues - seeing as government has grown by leaps and bounds under him. But there aren't any viable alternatives right now.

Kerry: Perhaps the last guy in the country who should be running for president, certainly at this juncture of our history.

Nuclear Weapons: Awful but necessary. Arms control doesn't work.

Left Wing Extremists: Annoying. Twist facts. - PERFECTLY SAID!

Vegetarians: I don't mind 'em except for the militant PETA-types. Fortunately more and more seem to be distancing themselves from PETA.

Environmental/Species Protection: Species protection, yes. But the environmental movement has become a haven for junk science and headline-grabbers. Plus, there are too many inane laws passed under the guise of environmentalism - spill a drop of heating oil when you're getting your tank filled and it could be a $100,000 clean-up. That goes way too far.

Women's Rights: Nobody doesn't want women to have rights. Unless you count Osama bin Laden and his ilk.

Gun Rights: More necessary now than ever. Far more necessary than the First Amendment and probably other parts of the Constitution. Speech and media regulation laws, which are sorely needed, should be patterned after gun control laws. That'll help eliminate one of the root causes of violence, rather than a means of expressing it.

Illegal drugs: We need to get serious about this. Death penalty? Fine.

Peace: You're right, it will probably never exist.

AIDS: Too much attention and money is being thrown at this because it has become a cause celebre for rich white liberals. Don't get me wrong: This is a horrible disease that I don't think I would wish on anyone. I don't even think I hate Saddam Hussein enough to wish this kind of a fate upon him. But there are diseases that kill far, far more people than AIDS, like cancer and heart disease. Research and funding should be more proportional to the number of people suffering from it.
Another thing that pisses me off about Bush is pledging 15 billion to fight AIDS in Africa. We'd be better off having that 15 billion going to cancer research right here. While I sympathize with people in Africa, we need to find a cure here first - for other things and then AIDS. Plus, many of these people are poor and have little to do but screw around. I don't think giving starving people condoms instead of food is going to go over very well.

Foreign Policy: Kick the crap out of terrorists and I'm happy.

Abortion: its evil.. I think that its better if you gave someone the chance to live rather than kill it.
Gay Marriage: Absolutely a no-no... Sure, i am ok with gays and lesbians in society but gay marriage? Thats way extreme.
Bush: he's ok.... i dont really know much about him though i do like his abstinence thing.
Kerry: he's ok too.. i think he would be a good president if he wins.
Nuclear Weapons: Im totally against it. They kill. They cause death and suffering.
Right Wing Extremists: hmm... i dont know...
Left Wing Extremists: no comment
Vegetarians: im not one but i do love to eat most vegetables
Environmental/Species Protection: i love this
Women's Rights: extremely for.. (like frostedbutterflies) I think women should be given the chance to be heard.
Gun Rights: no way.... they are just nuclear weapons... they neither do any good or protection. When people have guns, they have the tendency to just use it whatever the reasons might be.
Peace: doesnt exist in the world today. I believe it did exist once, and i know it will continue to exist if ONLY people would stop all these violence.
Foreign Policy: I think corrupt government officials should not think of themselves but for their own country's welfare. There should be enough food and other resources as supplies.
Daria: i dont know about this show.... Wish i have seen it.

You should have tried, when it was some to go here

I heard someone say that there were no WMD's in Iraqi. Congrads to them cuz there was none. Yes sarin gas is not allowed in the rules of war but it is not a WMD. and the missle heads THEY were supplied to the iraqis from allie sources. and guess who helped out Osama binladin in the cold war? Yes it was the U.S. WE created Bin Ladin. He supplied the iraqis with weapons. they basically were supplied with weapons and then they used them against us.

So there were no WMD's in Iraqi BUT there were WMD"S in IRAN. If bush would of pick a better country to rid 'terrorism' it should of been North Korea or Iran.They atleast had WMD's and then Bush and the adminastration wouldn't have to make up lies but find out information.
The President even[in his first year of office] said he did watch the news he had 'people' to give him the information. he might as well of had pick a country out of the dark and then occupied that country. The president really FU*KED UP.

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so that means you arent ever going to go in a car, and you are nevr going to take pictures?

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It's vegans who don't use any animal products.

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Because I'm a 16-year old full-time college student,

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What do you want? A cookie?

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Like you give a crap, so don't ask.

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What the **** is wrong with you? S/he was asking a simple question.

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Then the "sources" they give are almost all links to sites that relate Bush to Hilter. I give no respect, only degradation, to liberal extremists because of this.

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Yes, because every liberal extremist has compared Bush to Hitler. How about, next time, you remove your head from your *** before speaking.

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While bashing someone may give personal satisfaction, it just makes it harder to come to terms on the issue.

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While I do agree with you to a point, let me put something across: post on these boards for long enough and all dimplomacy will eventually fall to the wayside. Why? You realize that there are true imbeciles on here who, now matter how many credible ideas you present them with; will still be obstinantly ignorant in their opinions. As stated by Celtic: sometimes, you just can't put up with someone anymore.

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Originally posted by iamastar:
Abortion: This is an issue easy to answer. Unless you are in the shoes of the woman who chooses this choice or even in the shoes of the baby, than I suggest you shut it and go back to sleep.

Gay Marriage: Who says it's wrong? What is exactly right and wrong? I mean for all we know, gay people could look at straight people and do what straight people are doing to them-denying them basic rights. Personally, I am for it.

Bush: He's a politician. Do you actually think that you could get an honest act or word from a politician?

Kerry: Look at what I said for Bush.

Nuclear Weapons: They terrify me but if a country has and when push comes to shove then by all means.

Vegetarians: All the more power to them.

Environmental/Species Protection: It's something that's important and I'm definitely for giving endangered species all the protection they can get. If you really need to fire bullets at something, try playing a video game.

Women's Rights: It amazes me that in this day and age women still aren't getting equal pay. Of course, it also amazes me that in this day and age America elected Dubya its President and is about to re-elect him. Could the two possibly be connected?

Gun Rights: What's the point in having a gun. It just leads to world violence and more corruption.

Peace: World Peace is like a fairytale. Neither will come true.

Foreign Policy: We need a good diplomat. Or at least a better one than Bush.

Daria: I am not really into much of what MTV has to offer.

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