Question:
This past Saturday, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger spoke at an Ontario mall. "I call them girlie-men," Schwarzenegger said of the Democratic legislators who are blocking his budget proposal. A Schwarzenegger spokesperson dismissed the remark, assuring the public that the Governor only meant that his Democratic opposition is 'wimpy.' But lots of other folks smell sexism and homophobia in Schwarzenegger's comment.

If the Governor takes 'girlie-men' to mean 'wimpy,' then is he implying that girls and women (and gay, bisexual and transgender men who are often parodied as effeminate and 'girlie') are weak and 'wimpy'?

What do you think? Was Schwarzenegger's "girlie-men" comment:

Choices:
A harmless slip-up
Derogatory name-calling

 

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Originally posted by dreamsnpilot:
that is worse than saying you throw like a girl, as an insult, because by making "girlie men" a derogartory term, and insulting the democrats with it, he is insulting women.

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Originally posted by thefrogfarted
i don't see anything wrong with it it was just a comment

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I couldn't agree with dreamsnpilot more and thefrogfarted less. Not trying to be all "your wrong and I'm right" but it wasn't "just a comment." If that was "just a comment." then everything you or I or anyone else said would be "just a comment." Words are powerful. I'm not saying that it wasn't just a slip-up but it also wasn't "just a comment."

that is worse than saying you throw like a girl, as an insult, because by making "girlie men" a derogartory term, and insulting the democrats with it, he is insulting women.

i don't see anything wrong with it it was just a comment

does anybody here watch the old saturday night lives?!!?!?!? if you do u should remember hanz and franz, it had dana carvey and somebody else i dont remember. anyway they were an obvious take off of arnold s. they would always say "girly-men" so arnold thought it would be funny to relate it back to saturday night live. and the democrats must be girly men to get their feelings hurt on such a slight comment

grow some ball people

maybe they take it too seriously. try thinking it of there point of view

I don't think that people would have made such a big deal out of it if it had made one iota of sense.

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God made Eve for Adam not Bob for Adam.

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That's not even how it goes, idiot.

I haven't really followed this whole thing but I just think that when you say "you throw like a girl" or say "I call them girlie-men," I think of it as an insult to women. Sure a long time ago that wouldn't have meant much other than you suck at throwing, but that was when women were considered less than men. Times have changed and women have proven that they are just as powerful and strong as men. I don't have a problem saying an insult such as "I call them bad politicians" or whatever but when you bring women or girls into the insult, thats just wrong and yea sexist.

I think that there is nothing wrong with girlie men they are who they are and Schwarzenegger should not be making derogatory marks about them he needs to watch what he says about things like this. t_pride2000@yahoo.com

Okay, when I first heard this, I thought it was sexist. But then I read this article in the San Francisco Chronicle, and it changed my mind. What do you think?:

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In a parallel, pink universe . . .

Enough already about Gov. Arlene Schwarzenegger's remarks over the weekend. She was simply using a little humor to make a point about state legislators who aren't showing the emotional intelligence necessary to find consensus on the budget.

"I call them 'boy-women,' '' she said.

Humorless men's libbers have their boxers all in a bunch, accusing the governor of -- what else? -- sexism. They say using the word "boy'' as a pejorative suggests the governor thinks masculine qualities are somehow funny and inferior to women's qualities. They claim "boy-women'' also suggests that the governor completely dismisses the fact that there is, in fact, a gender other than female in the Legislature.

Please.

Of course, the governor knows some of the legislators are men, and she has shown time and again she has nothing but respect for them. In fact, some of her best friends in politics are men. (They haven't joined the governor yet in her tent behind her office for Cosmos and cigarettes because they claim they don't feel welcome, which is their problem, not the governor's.)

It's a sad commentary on the political correctness of our time that anyone could take offense at a comment that clearly refers to a comedy skit on "Saturday Night Live'' featuring two superwomen who are hilarious caricatures of our superwoman governor. They refer to all other women as "boy-women,'' implying they are dense and oafish like little boys, woefully short on their own fabulous womanliness.

Lighten up, gents. The governor was just making a joke. It's like a coach motivating her softball players by saying, "OK, let's move it, gentlemen.'' She doesn't mean anything negative about men. It's just something coaches say to get under their players' skins. But some masculinists will manage to find sexism in every utterance from a woman's mouth.

The negative reaction to Schwarzenegger's remark is an indication, frankly, that we have reached the point where the jockstrap-burning radicals won't stop until they have stripped public speech of all humor and spontaneity and, in the process, butchered the English language beyond repair.

The libbers have long tried to argue that language not only reveals but also shapes how a society values a group of people. They say it tells us who we are. They would have us believe that even though laws have changed to give men equal rights, and that men are filling jobs as doctors, lawyers and even presidential advisers, language continues to reinforce deeply held beliefs about male inferiority.

To use a rather crude example, the mascu-nazis wonder why we say of a person of either gender who is gutsy and tough, "Boy, she has a set of ovaries on her.'' But this is hardly sexist. It is just that, over the course of time, ovaries have come to represent strength and courage. It is a phrase as likely to be applied these days nearly as much to men as women, but some men just don't know how to take a compliment.

The masculinists also continue to trot out the tired argument that because we say "she'' when we mean someone of either gender, that men are still the "different'' sex, and women are the "norm.'' Thus, they claim, language helps keep the balance of power in favor of women.

This is the same garbage the libbers have been shoveling for years. Forty years ago this week, Nancy Armstrong landed on the moon and uttered the famous words, "One small step for woman. One giant leap for womankind.'' As every schoolgirl knows, she was speaking for everyone, not just women. But the mascu- nazis want us to think that men are somehow being denigrated and devalued when the word "woman'' is used to mean "person.''

If they have their way, we will see the end of such words as freshwoman, middlewoman and womanpower, despite the fact every reasonable person understands the words refer to both women and men.

The truth is the word "woman'' couldn't be more inclusive. "Man'' is part of "woman'' -- indeed "man'' accounts for three-fifths of its letters, for heaven's sake! When our foremothers wrote, "All women are created equal,'' the inclusion of men was obvious. Imagine if the writers of the Declaration of Independence had instead written, "All men are created equal.'' Talk about exclusionary. Where is "woman'' in that?

Now, gents, before firing off testosterone-fueled e-mails to me and embarrassing yourselves even more, try to use the brain God gave you and put the governor's remark in perspective. Think about this: If she had teased the laggard legislators about being "blackie-women,'' do you really think African Americans would have taken offense for even one minute? Enough said.

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That article, which can be found here, made me realize its just a lighthearted joke, and I probably wouldnt have taken offense if it was boy-women. All feminists want is equality, but that means we must be equally offended by sexist remarks make toward both men and women. I found it hard to be offended by "boy-women," so I decided that the "girlie-men" wasn't actually that bad. Your thoughts?

as much as I think that it's just plain disrespectful of people who don't agree with his political policies. What bothered me most about Arnold Schwarzenegger's comment was not thatg it showed particular disrespect to women or to homosexual men, but more that it shows an utter disrespect for the opinions of those politicians who disagree with his budget proposal.
California is in a lot of finacial trouble, and when Schwarzenegger took office he vowed to be a governor who would try to make compromises and be a bridge-builder between the democratic and republican parties in California. Calling his opponents "girlie men" is not the way to make peace or work civilly with them. Being a democrat, I actually find it more offensive that he would insult my well considered political views by calling them 'wimpy' for the sole reason that he does not share them, than if he would call me 'wimpy' personally (Honestly, I could not care less whether he thought of me as personally wimpy).
I doubt that Schwarzenegger intended for his comment to come off as being homophobic or sexist, but to some people it did give that impression. And though it was probably unintentional, it was hurtful to some, and therefore he should apologize for his ill-considered comment (which he seems to be refusing to do). Whatever way the governor intened his comment, he should stick to his word about trying to be dimplomatic and bipartisan, and stop childishly insulting those who are simply trying to work with him to find the best solutions for the state's financial issues.

-----"""as harmless as gettin smacked by a baby."""

When I first read that I thought it said "as harmless as smacking a baby", and I pictured something disturbing.

Shut ur yaps, alllllll of ya!!!!! Arnold's comment was as harmless as gettin smacked by a baby. If you have half a clue as to the man's movies, then you'd know that that was only one of his many clevor phrases, and if you take him for being sexist/homophobic or what the heck ever, then that's just sad, and you too, can call your selves "girlie-men".

-----"""God made Eve for Adam not Bob for Adam."""

Wow, if you're gonna say that at least get the classic clichéd expression right: It's "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" duh. There is a French version of the expression, but it is "Adam and Eve? Why not Adam and Yves?" (Yves being a male name). As you can see from the expression, they're a little more free with their sexuality than we are.


-----"""Why are we only prolonging the image of gay, bisexual, and transgender men being effeminate and "girlie?" Who brought that up? Who assumed that they were implied in the "girlie" or the "girlie men" statement?"""

One thing is for sure, "the gays" didn't bring it up. yet now here they are, getting flack for complaining about it...my guess is one Democratic senator said the statement was homophobic, and a whole bunch of conservatives lept all over it, saying that the Democrats and women and gays were complaining, like they "always" do.

Girlie men. Lots of people say stuff like it. I know it's wrong, but hardly anybody makes this big of a deal when average Joes say it. So he's a governor, speaking for the people. But he was voted in, anyway. Just because he's a politician, do we have to scrutinize every word? How come people can't study philosophy or something with this much attention? No wonder politicians' messages never seem to come straight out and clear. We all knew what Schwarzenegger was getting at. It has been said, anyway. It shouldn't come up again, but I really hope I'm not going to read a half-page article about this tomorrow.

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If the Governor takes 'girlie-men' to mean 'wimpy,' then is he implying that girls and women (and gay, bisexual and transgender men who are often parodied as effeminate and 'girlie') are weak and 'wimpy'?

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Excuse me? Why are we only prolonging the image of gay, bisexual, and transgender men being effeminate and "girlie?" Who brought that up? Who assumed that they were implied in the "girlie" or the "girlie men" statement?

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Originally posted by Kechi:
I call them ****, *****,*****magnet,***** or anything else. These people have to understand that their different. They like the same sex. God made Eve for Adam not Bob for Adam.

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If you are gonna diss the gay people, which is incridibly rude, then atleast learn how to spell ******! God, you lame, conceited retards!

[This message was edited by YNLissa on July 24, 2004 at 09:43 AM.]

I call them ****, *****,*****magnet,***** or anything else. These people have to understand that their different. They like the same sex. God made Eve for Adam not Bob for Adam.

[This message was edited by YNLissa on July 24, 2004 at 09:42 AM.]

Ok... we all know where "girlie-men" came from but i do believe that the Gov. shouldn't have said it. I mean in a time where everyone is so senistive about labels and everyone is fighting about homosexual marriage and women are now more powerful than they were before the Gov. should have chosen his words better. When asked for an apology he wouldn't... well he could have at least said it was not to offened people. And that Gray Davis comment about him not apologizing about putting us into millions of debt, i believe he had to do what he had to do during the time of Enron. We were screwed from day one of Enron but instead of taking a 1% raise in sales tax to pulls us out of this mess we decided to kick the man out. I think that if ya'll are ready to say who's not capeable of doing their job you go ahead and try it. Here's a question... why hasn't the debt gone away yet? Gov. Arnold seems to be having a problem getting things passed to fix it right... Ever think that maybe Davis had a similar mix up? The problem is people look for a quick fix ideas, and if someone proposes a plan to make it work but it might cost a bit more people boo and kick you out. If you want things to be better you may have to sacrifice and compromise in order for it to work.

It's so sad how everyone is making uninformed criticisms of Gov. Schwarzenegger's statement. As anyone who has seen the SNL reruns from the early 90's knows, this term comes from the skit 'Pumping Up with Hans and Franz', starring Dana Carvey and Kevin Nealon as Ahnold-worshipping, egotistical bodybuilders with thick Austrian accents. They had life-sized cutouts of Schwarzenegger and one of their constant insults to those less muscular than them was 'You're just a girly-man' and they even opened their own gym, the Pumpatorium, to turn the girly-men into manly-men. Nothing against gays, or women, or Austrians, just a joke from two FICTIONAL characters that was, in fact, making fun of the Governator. So to sort of rally the troops, the Governator made a reference to that which he knew they would all understand. They did, and you didn't.
Now stop blowing things out of proportion.

Did you guys know that there used to be a Saturday live skit where one of the actors pretended to be Arnold and called people girly men. So really Arnold was making fun of himself, it was just a harmless joke, he didn't mean anything by it. I don't understand why the media and everybody are making such a big deal out of it. Well i guess i sort of do, but not that much.

sssweetiepie