Affirmative action is the absolute epidimy of stupity in our society. The right to further education is open to everyone yet not in the same way. Affirmative action is just like welfare, the government throws out their own money and tax payers dollars for a faulty economic aid. Affirmative action is the paying or loaning of money for tution to AFRICAN AMERICANS. Of course all races should have equal education oppurtunities, yet is it fair that Mr. 3.9 is kept out of the college of his dreams because some basketball athlete whom is African American gets a free ride scholarship but only gets a 2.1 GPA? Affirmative action is racism towards blacks yet is supported by blacks. I look at it as though it is saying all black people are poor and need the easy way out. Of course scholarships should be awarded to those outstanding STUDENTS or athletes, but full rides? I am addressing this because it may also have an effect on the person who has gotten the scholarship based on athletics. Some great football player might get a scholarship to say Princeton, but his GPA in h.s. was a borderline 2.0. I have heard of great people and athletes fall apart because they took the best school that wasn't right for them at the lowest offer.

Affirmative Action is just another example of hypocracy demonstrated by the American left. They talk about equality but they don't strive for it. They think that equality refers to ability rather than oppertunity. They want everyone to have the same ability, so they have to set up a system that will bring down the able onto the same playing feild as the unable.


"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.

I honestly don't think Affirmative Action is getting abused. Just look at all those facts I posted from government sources..it affects such a small, but at the same time an important group of people. Everyone who bashes it uses false claims or generalizations to make it seem as though every Black person who goes to college or gets college grants is using Affirmative Action. Even the President himself engaged in that premise by using the word "quota" and even the conservative Supreme Court disagreed with him. So I think it's just a blown up conspiracy that Republicans use to garner votes and southern support that just doesn't work and is really unfair. Most businesses, schools, and government agencies support it so it should stay just the way it is.

Josh

affirmative action at work and school isn't fair (of course you realize it's used for women and other minorities.. not just blacks). but there is still a lot of prejudice against minorites and women out there so it can help by keeping people in check. much like welfare, which is really a good thing, the problem comes about when you have people mooching off the system and getting what they do not deserve. I dont like affirmative action overall, but i don't have any better ideas. do you?

Hey Blue:

i actually agree with you about talent and scholastics, but i think sports is a whole different issue, and it prob does need to be addressed.

Josh

Ok, of course sports are large in black society and since they take it more seriously then other races and become better at sports, doesn't that make them more athletic?

And don't give me this BS about sports. I am not saying its bad that teams and schools take talented athletes but it's a question of whether or not they're intellectually ready for a school that they might thrive in at sports. Look at Standford, their basketball teams # 2 in the nation and their undefeated and most of the players have GPA's higher than 3.7's. There are always smart athletes, the question is if these schools are allowing scholastically qualified students into their schools.

i would just like to point out the fact that 2 negatives make a positive...lol

Yea but when a college chooses a more athletic black player for their team over anyone else of any color because they want their talen, is that affirmative action, No. In that case when a MLB team or an NFL team signs a star black player over a white player that would be affirmative action and it's not.

And affirmative action only helps a small percentage of blacks. I couldn't if even tell you one person I know that has benfited from affirmative action. Most major companies support affirmative action. And it's not a quota system. Schools and companies don't sit there and say we need 5 more blacks to meet this standard. There is no set # of blacks, hispanics, or any other minority that schools and companies have to meet. There not going to to choose some black guy who's a crackhead over some Harvard white guy, it doesn't work like that. Minorities who benefit from affirmative actions are just as, if not more qualified then the white person.

Mr. Blue I have to agree with you on one pont that there blacks who are smart enough to get into college on their own and I'm one of them. And I know for a fact I haven't benefited from affirmative action. There's places in my town I know I can't even get hired for because they don't hire young black men, even if they're smart. There's a general stereotype out there that blacks can't achieve and they don't have the drive and skills to be successful people, and living in the South I see that a lot.

Anyone could get a loan, no matter if you're white or blakc, you still have to pay it back. Yeah they're are lots of scholarships for Minorities, but they're also created by private companies and organizations who have the right to do so. Even in America today whites are sill seen as more superior then blacks in most areas That doesnt't offend me though. I know blacks have a long way to go before we're treated equally or at least fairly and it's going to take time. I would be in favor for a system that helps low income students of any race get into college and the workforce, but to say affirmative action is some handout for blacks who are dumb is really wrong and not based on anything factual.

What makes it worse if our President using the word "quota" to explain it. Every General in the military is for Affirmative action, almost every corporation, and most colleges. That's why the Supreme Court didn't rule against it in the Michican case, because it still is needed.

Djmag I don't really know about all the athletic stuff lol. I play soccer and I have to say I wish blacks would aim more for school success then sports success. My brother is in the NFL and he pretty much got grades given to him in high school and college just because he was a football player, not because he was black.

I think all of your arguments are fair because so many people twist and turn affirmative action and what it is. I don't think that people who are against truly understand it and like I said in my last post, it helps women as well as whites to.

quote:

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This whole issue also dates back to athletics. It is a known fact that African American are a more athletic race.

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I have to fully disagree on this one. There have been many case studies in both sociology and anthropology that say quite the opposite. In particular why the nation see's more blacks in sports is because to the general African-American culture, sports are seen a much more obtainable goal. Also culturally African-Americans see sports as an acceptable area to pursue a career. The perfect example of this was Basketball in its infancy. For about two decades basketball was dominated by Eastern-European Jews. Why, because culturally the lower-class of society tends to view sports as a viable option and good career pursuit, while the middle and upper class tends to go for the traditional academic pursuits. Also to say that it’s well known fact that blacks are more physically fit is false. According to what source, genetically that is the farthest from the truth. There is no special gene in blacks that isn't present in whites. In fact in biological terms race doesn't exist, "from a scientific point of view, the concept of race has failed to obtain any consensus; none is likely, given the gradual variation in existence"(1) Stop trying to pigeonhole people. In fact part of the problem with race classification is that within-group variability is greater than between-group variability or "statistically, genetic variation within clusters is large compared with that between clusters."(2)


1: The History and Geography of Human Genes, Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi and Alberto Piazza pg.19
2: Same as 1

I agree partially with Futurepres2. I mean, i see where you're coming frmo and the statistics, but Affirmative Action is reverse discrimination, though I dont entirely agree with Mr. Blue (by the way Mr. Blue, you spelled "epitome" and "stupidity" wrong. Just to let you know). But by making companies hire blacks and minorities, its keeping better-qualified white people from getting a job. It's trying to help minorities but, in turn, discriminating against white people. I do believe there should be some level of Affirmitive action (i.e: no "Race" part of job or college applications) but as much as we have now, with the Minority quota for colleges and companies is too much.

One Case: Marquise Kately of Cal was accepted a year ago due to his basketball skills, yet was put on prohbation due to an under average GPA. He spent a year at a JC just so he could go to Cal. Kately is a good person in all, but didn't have the grades to cut it. Cal's acceptance rate is a 3.7 average GPA at the lowest, yet Kately got in with what I believe was a low 2.0. His spot at Cal could have been given to someone that was waitlisted with a 3.8.

This diversity in schools argument is BS anyways. There is already enough of diversity in most colleges in California. What you are trying to say is that the only way an African American can get into college is due to affirmative action. There are plenty of African Amer. smart enough to get into top schools but if there is income trouble I do believe those of all races, if qualified should be guarenteed equal loans.

This whole issue also dates back to athletics. It is a known fact that African American are a more athletic race. That is why colleges want these star athletes. They sell tickets and that is what posts a schools account and balance.

It is a known fact that affirmative action is the loaning and paying of college funds. African Americans should have equal oppurtunity but it shouldn't totally be based on athletic performance, what about the grades. Half of African Americans that attend division 1 NCAA athletic schools don't have the grades to get into any of the lower state colleges.

Mr. Blue:

Everything that you have typed is so over exaggerated and you have no facts to back it up. For one Affirmative action is not the paying and loaning of money to AFRICAN AMERICANS. Affirmative action is put place to ensure that schools have a diverse student body so there won't be a one-race student body. It's important in our society for people of all races to interact with oneanother when it comes to education. Could you even name one case where a person with a 3.9 GPA didn't get accepted over someone with a 2.1 GPA???

According to a report from the U.S. Labor Department, affirmative action has helped 5 million minority members and 6 million White and minority women move up in the workforce ("Reverse Discrimination," 1995). Likewise, a study sponsored by the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs showed that between 1974 and 1980 federal contractors (who were required to adopt affirmative action goals) added Black and female officials and managers at twice the rate of noncontractors (Citizens' Commission, 1984).
Women continue to earn 76 cents for every male dollar (Bowler, 1999).

Black people continue to have twice the unemployment rate of White people, twice the rate of infant mortality, and just over half the proportion of people who attend four years or more of college. In fact, without affirmative action the percentage of Black students at many selective schools would drop to only 2% of the student body (Bowen & Bok, 1998). This would effectively choke off Black access to top universities and severely restrict progress toward racial equality.

A Time/CNN poll found that 80% of the public felt "affirmative action programs for minorities and women should be continued at some level" (Roper Center for Public Opinion, 1995a

According to the U.S. Commerce Department, there are 1.3 million unemployed Black civilians and 112 million employed White civilians (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2000). Thus, even if every unemployed Black worker in the United States were to displace a White worker, only 1% of Whites would be affected. Furthermore, affirmative action pertains only to job-qualified applicants, so the actual percentage of affected Whites would be a fraction of 1%. The main sources of job loss among White workers have to do with factory relocations and labor contracting outside the United States, computerization and automation, and corporate downsizing (Ivins, 1995).
--www.governmentguide.com


So as you can see from those stats Affirmative Action has not only helped African-Americans, but also other minorities, White women and men. I truly don't you think you know what you're talking about and you need to get your facts straight.

Josh

right on.