I'm going to be watching it, picking it apart, and judging it the entire time and I hope you all will do the same to intiate a heated discussion. Post your opinions HERE ya'll!

Or people from Arizona.

Thanks for the update. Now I'll be able to talk in the discussions at school without making things up as I go along.

Just Arizonans.

Sorry for my stupidity, but what are the people of Arizona supposed to be called? (considering that the people from NY, are New Yorkers, or am I still wrong?)

I forgot to mention, Kerry also referred to the people of Arizona as "Arizonians". Sigh.

Thanks Aguagon, I even if I'm in another country, I know what happened in the debate now!

I'd be happy to. The third debate dealt with very few issues that hadn't been covered before, and both candidates just repeated their old rhetoric on the previously discussed issues. Each continued charging that the other doesn't have an understanding of how to fight terror, and each promised to put a lot of money into sparkling new government programs without raising taxes (without explaining how, of course).

The biggest difference between this debate and the previous ones was that Bush finally pulled himself together. Gallup put Kerry as the winner by 13%, but I have trouble believing America thought he blew Bush away by such a large margin if it thought they damn-near tied in the second debate. Post-debate commentators on nearly all the channels were talking about how this was Bush's best debate yet, even if he didn't really say anything new. Bush managed to remain calm and composed (finally), and did not look like a baboon on the verge of a heart attack.

New issues that came up included gun control and same-sex marriage. Kerry blew Bush away on the former with a speech about how law enforcement agents favored strict requirements to own a gun, but he (in my opinion) made a mistake on the latter by immediately pointing out Mary Cheney's lesbianism. Kerry said he believed homosexuality wasn't a choice while Bush admitted he didn't know (something he could stand to do a lot more, in my opinion), but both said they believed marriage was between a man and a woman, so it all amounts to the same thing.

Gallup's stats on this debate were skewed, as although the group surveyed was roughly 36% Republican, 36% Democrat, and 28% Independent, 51% said they supported Kerry (beforehand) to the 47% that supported Bush. Here are the stats, though, if you or anyone else is interested:

Question: Regardless of which candidate you support, who do you think did the better job in the debate?

Overall:
Kerry: 52%; Bush: 39%; Both: 8%; Neither: 1%
Republicans:
Kerry: 17%; Bush: 73%; Both: 8%; Neither: 2%
Democrats:
Kerry: 86%; Bush: 7%; Both: 5%; Neither: 1%
Independents:
Kerry: 54%; Bush: 34%; Both: 10%; Neither: 1%
Those Already Decided To Vote For Kerry:
Kerry: 89%; Bush: 2%; Both: 8%; Neither: 1%
Those Already Decided To Vote For Bush:
Kerry: 11%; Bush: 80%; Both: 7%; Neither: 1%

Question: How has your opinion of John Kerry/George W. Bush been affected by the debate?

Kerry:
More favorable: 42%; Less favorable: 15%; Unchanged: 43%
Bush:
More favorable: 27%; Less favorable: 17%; Unchanged: 56%

Question: Which candidate do you think would better handle...

Healthcare?
Kerry: 55%; Bush: 41%

The Economy?
Kerry: 51%; Bush: 46%

Taxes?
Kerry: 47%; Bush: 50%

Question: Thinking about the following characteristics and qualities, please say whether you think each one better described John Kerry or George W. Bush during the debate:

Expressed himself more clearly
Kerry: 62%; Bush: 29%

Showed he cares about the needs of people like you
Kerry: 53%; Bush: 41%

Had a good understanding of the issues
Kerry: 49%; Bush: 37%

Agreed with you more on the issues you care about
Kerry: 53%; Bush: 46%

Showed he shares your values
Kerry: 50%; Bush: 46%

Was more believable
Kerry: 48%; Bush: 45%

Was more likable
Kerry: 43%; Bush: 48%

Again, I really don't think these stats represent what America thought, as I think most on this site will agree with me that this was Bush's best performance yet.

I missed the final debate. Aguagon, can you be invaluable (once again) and give me a recap? Please?

quote:

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I've noticed Edwards' style seems to annoy a fair number of people, but I think for every person disgusted with his "pretty boy" image, there's a fat southern woman with a mad crush on him.

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Agreed, agreed-- you know what scares me though? Imagine if Kerry gets elected, and then something happens to him, leaving Edwards. That was the main thing I thought about whenever I heard Edwards open his mouth--*shudders*. I think I'd move to Canada. Or Europe. Pretty much anywhere else.

quote:

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request more involvement from allied nations

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You need that. You gotta make peace (once more) with your "allies".

Kerry did engage in a fair amount of getting off-topic, but if you followed him all the way through his responses, he would usually get around to answering the question he had been asked (albeit near the end of his responses). His policy on Iraq is basically a combination of Bush's plan to speed up the training of Iraqi soldiers, and to request more involvement from allied nations. I do believe that between the two debates he's stated that at least five times. He did spend a lot of time refuting the flip-flop charges, but I think he was justified, as I'm tired of Bush's strategy of inventing his opponent's side of the argument and then arguing against it.

Kerry never said Bush only cut taxes for the wealthy. At most, he sort of implied it, when he said Bush favored a tax cut for the wealthiest 1% over spending the money on more productive means. Under a study conducted by CNN, under Bush's current policies, by 2010 52% of the money given back in tax cuts will have gone to the wealthiest 1%. All Kerry said was that he believes tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% should be eliminated, and I certainly agree with him on that.

I found it hilarious how Kerry would never actually answer the question. A citizen would ask him his opinion on Medicare and somehow it would get back to "Bush lied about Iraq!" And then someone would ask him about his policy on Iraq (which, by the way, he never once stated. He just said that it hadn't changed. But how do we know that when he never said it?) and he'd go back to "Bush only cut taxes for the wealthy!" (That's a lie. I am definitly not one of the top 2% of wealthy people in this country and my taxes were cut.) But anyway, I don't want a President who can't even answer a question when it is directed toward him. It's like he wasn't even listening. He had decided what he was going to say before the debate began and was going to say it no matter what.

If anyone is interested, here are some stats from Gallup on the Second Presidential Debate:

Question: Regardless of which candidate you support, who do you think did the better job in the debate?

Overall:
Kerry: 47%; Bush: 45%; Both: 7%; Neither: 1%
Republicans:
Kerry: 10%; Bush: 83%; Both: 7%; Neither: 0%
Democrats:
Kerry: 87%; Bush: 8%; Both: 5%; Neither: 0%
Independents:
Kerry: 53%; Bush: 37%; Both: 9%; Neither: 1%
Males:
Kerry: 45%; Bush: 48%; Both: 6%; Neither: 1%
Females:
Kerry: 50%; Bush: 41%; Both: 9%; Neither: 0%

Question: How has your opinion of John Kerry/George W. Bush been affected by the debate?

Kerry:
More favorable: 38%; Less favorable: 20%; Unchanged: 42%
Bush:
More favorable: 31%; Less favorable: 20%; Unchanged: 49%

Question: Which candidate do you think would better handle...

The Economy?
Pre-Debate: Kerry: 44%; Bush: 50%
Post-Debate: Kerry: 49%; Bush: 49%

The Situation In Iraq?
Pre-Debate: Kerry: 50%; Bush: 46%
Post-Debate: Kerry: 46%; Bush: 53%

Terrorism?
Pre-Debate: Kerry: 45%; Bush: 52%
Post-Debate: Kerry: 39%; Bush: 56%

Question: Thinking about the following characteristics and qualities, please say whether you think each one better described John Kerry or George W. Bush during the debate:

Expressed himself more clearly
Kerry: 54; Bush: 37%

Had a good understanding of the issues
Kerry: 47%; Bush: 42%

Agreed with you more on the issues you care about
Kerry: 49%; Bush: 50%

Was more likable
Kerry: 45%; Bush: 47%

Was more believable
Kerry: 45%; Bush: 49%

Demonstrated he is tough enough for the job
Kerry: 40%; Bush: 53%

Sorry for all the stats, but I found them interesting. The crowd going back to Bush on Iraq following the debate was certainly not what I would have expected. Evidently, America thought Bush handled Friday night's debate quite a bit better than I did...but then again, that doesn't surprise me much.

What amused me most was the fact that Bush kept on talking out of turn. He would get up and try to have the final word without permission.

What a naughty, naughty boy.

Lol I wish I'd seen it... I love Bush's world-famous "What the hell is going on?" faces.

Not that I could see, although following Kerry's well thought-out and great response on his own abortion stance, he made a face that clearly said "What did my opponent just say?"

Thanks for the update on what happened.... I obviosly couldn't watch the debate

Did Bush make monkey faces?

On to the Second Presidential Debate:

It is my opinion that, once again, Kerry came out on top. Both candidates made a fair amount of mistakes, but I think Kerry continued what he did eight days ago, which was alleviating American's fears that he will be a weak President. More than once, Bush was left floundering for an answer. Here's who I think came out on top on the various issues that were covered:

Invading Iraq: Kerry
It is very hard to seperate my long-held opinion from what I heard in the debate tonight, but I am left to conclude that Kerry came out on top. Bush's new game plan is trying to use the Duelfer report to his favor, when in reality the Duelfer report only hurt his case. Bush comes across as weak when trying to use the Duelfer report in his favor: the fact that Saddam wanted to make weapons and had the capabilities to make weapons somewhere down the line is simply not proof of why we needed to invade.

Bush charged that Kerry looked at the same intelligence and decided that we needed to invade, but Kerry countered that he has never actually changed his opinion on this, but that he believes we needed to approach Saddam in a different way, with more allies. Bush moved on to his claim in the previous debate that we have a Coalition. Unfortunately for Bush, this didn't work eight nights ago, and it didn't work tonight. To quote my own words: a Coalition with only one strong member is scarcely a Coalition at all.

Tax Cuts: Tie
What we saw tonight was an interesting thing. Kerry charged endlessly that Bush gave $87 billion to the rich in tax cuts that could have been spent better, and I think he had a perfectly valid point here. Where Kerry's point falters is where he claims that by raising taxes on the rich, he will be able to meet his financial goals. Bush countered by saying that if that $87 billion had gone to other programs, it wouldn't have come anywhere near meeting the exorbitant amount of money Kerry is saying he will raise without taxing those making less than $200,000 a year.

In other words, neither one is being a fiscal Conservative. Bush's fiscal policies have screwed us over, and if Kerry actually carries through his plans (which are almost certainly empty campaign promises), he will screw us over even more. Neither one raised a valid case for their tax programs, but I do give Bush credit for being more honest about the situation.

Environment: Tie
Kerry should have been able to take this and run with it, but he couldn't. I'll admit that I'm not too familiar with enviromental policies, but it seemed to me that neither candidate came off with an edge.

Frivolous Lawsuits: Tie
I think it is rather unfair to bring Edward's career choice into this, but it was brought up and had to be addressed. What I saw tonight was Kerry floundering while Bush came right out and said that wealthy lawyers were taking away money from the government that was needed for productive things. Obviously, though, citizens need their trial rights, and when asked if Kerry was in favor of at least putting limits on the often incredible amounts of money victims could sue for, he said he was.

Abortion: Kerry
Somewhat tragically, the abortion issue ended up being the night's comic relief. Kerry got up, clearly stated that he was against abortions but would not attempt to impose his own religion-based views on others, and said that he believed specific circumstances called for specific actions.

Hilariously, Bush stood up after he was done, said something along the lines of, "I'm still trying to decipher that", and then went on to how Kerry voted against a ban on partial-birth abortions, and it "that simple". Kerry was up in a flash, countering that it was not that simple, and that he would have supported it if judicial intervention was possible in specific cases to overturn the law.

Bush's response? He got up, stood there blinking for about 15 of the 30 seconds he was alloted, and that said in that horribly confused voice only he can summon: "He voted against a ban on partial-birth abortions. It's that simple."

Reform of Social Programs: Bush
This agitated me beyond belief. There were countless valid points Kerry could have raised about the money Bush has squandered away, but he didn't. What did he choose to do instead? He said, "Hey, let's spend more money!" By doing this, he cut off his own access to one of his hardest-hitting and most valid points about Bush squandering away our surplus.

When it came to the way the candidates answered questions and presented themselves, I think each had a unique flaw in his debating style: Kerry often spent the majority of time he was alloted answering a different question than the one he had been asked, and at several points during the debate Bush looked like a five-year-old about to throw a temper tamptrum. Kerry needs to stay more focused and direct, while Bush needs to calm down.

All in all, I do think Kerry won, although it certainly wasn't the blow-out we saw eight nights ago.

The statement "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11," made by Cheney pretty much represents the whole entire flow of the debate.

Of course, when you consider that Edwards is a (comparative) newcomer to the issues of international relations as opposed to Cheney's established political involvement (which he invoked in the debate) in them, the fact that they came out almost even is significant. By this I mean that we must allow for a veteran of international politics to have a slight edge on someone who isn't. But, if a slight edge is all they have, surely the former is in truth superior in only their experience, and not their actual political assessments.
Of course I may be thinking totally abstractly, tell me if i am.