Okay...I don't HATE Bush. I like him...BUT.

I've been reading this "VERY CONSERVATIVE" magazine and you know what? He's not so conservative ANYMORE. He campaigned as a conservative but his spending is going WAY UP. And that wasn't supposed to happen. I am not against him...I just wish he was MORE conservative.


I don't really want hate posts...replied to this topic...I just want to know if anyone feels the same way I do!?

Frankly, he's trying to court the Latino vote, and with good reason: By some projections, Latinos could be the majority population in the U.S. within the next few decades.

Like him or not, Bush is a long-range planner. He doesn't do what's best at the moment or what'll help in 4 years; he does what he thinks will help 30-40 years down the road. That's also why a lot of the GOP is jumping on the amnesty bandwagon. The GOP can't afford the Latino vote to become solely Democrat the way the black vote effectively is. Bush (and the GOP) realize that while they may p.o. their base now, it may save the party down the road. The black vote is a lost cause, but the Latino vote is not.

Where I and much of Bush's base disagree is that Latinos probably won't assume a majority if we nip it in the bud now and send the illegals back home, since they are breaking the law to begin with. OTOH, that'll royally f--- up our economy - it's a Catch-22 if there ever was one.

Nice word...yes, I'm a bit surprised by Bush's stand on the illlegal immingration situation...not that I disagree with it.

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BUT FISCALLY BUSH IS NOT CONSERVATIVE.

Bush is not conservative in many respects - amnesty being another of the more recent unconservativeness (hey a new word!) of the president.

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since when is communism (which is what true far left liberalism really is) not traditional? it's a good old fashioned dictatorship

I'm talking about reform, keep in mind. Not a form of government. And anyways, communism rose after fascism (which is what true far right conservatism is). Essentially, communism was a response to fascism...just like most liberal reform movements are responses to crazy, conservative domination.

since when is communism (which is what true far left liberalism really is) not traditional? it's a good old fashioned dictatorship

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wrong my dear northeners wanted to eliminate slavery, southerners(in general) did not and they were all dixie-crats

Eliminating slavery was a liberal idea in that it called for change. Liberals are not bound be tradition, while conservatives are.

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Liberals wanted to eliminate slavery. Conservatives did not.

wrong my dear northeners wanted to eliminate slavery, southerners(in general) did not and they were all dixie-crats

just to point out for kicks we still have one state that has flogging as a legal punishment, delaware so don't mess around in that state.

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we have legalized abortion, we have some states that allow gay marriage, we are big on foreign policy, we are always reviewing laws and policies and changing them if we feel necessary...

We have 1 state that allows gay marriage. Abortion is still a divisive issue. "Big Foreign Policy" such as invading other countries is not liberal. Negoiation and diplomacy are liberal ideas.

Just compared to other similar countries, we are not liberal.

we do not really preserve our history like other nations (once buildings get old, we knock them down to build new ones)...

we have legalized abortion, we have some states that allow gay marriage, we are big on foreign policy, we are always reviewing laws and policies and changing them if we feel necessary...

I still disagree with that statement. The US may have had very liberal origins, but compared to other "civilized" countries, this is not a liberal country. I responded to your points earlier.

I'm not trying to start a debate with this blue, it all started with a statement that the US is quite liberal (not Democratic...). That is it. Take it at face value. Please.

that's okay saturnmoth, sorry for snapping...

You are comparing conservative and democrat. You should be comparing liberal and conservative. Liberals wanted to eliminate slavery. Conservatives did not.

Please understand that conservative and liberal, right and left, are not clearly defined throughout all of our history. For example, Democrats in general were the supporters of slavery throughout the south. The Conservatives wanted it abolished. The first appearance of the Ku Klux Klan was a Democratic political action. They were members of the Democratic party or hired mercenaries that were used to silence abolitionists, and others during the Reconstruction Era. Conservatives haven't had a spotless history either.

I'm sorry meagan, I meant no offense. I read your point correctly and was merely making the point that professors teach from their own perspective. It was I who was unclear and I apologize.

However, we were one of the last "civilized" countries to abolish slavery. We have yet to elect, let alone nominate, a female or minority president. Religion plays a bigger role in this country than most. Issues like global warming and teaching evolution are still controversial issues.

We may have had liberal beginnings, but we have been a conservative nation for a long, long time.

I don't see how waging war makes us liberal, either. Yes, we were trying to protect and spread democracy, but wasn't and isn't the liberals who opposed and still oppose our conflicts in Iraq, Vietnam, and Korea?

Oh my goodness...

I'm not an idiot saturnmoth...I do realize that professors teach from their own perspectives, otherwise I would probably have become a raving democrat like my philosophy professor (he made us view images of soldiers dying in Iraq and then basically told us that if we supported our troops and our nation during this war, we would be supporting the deaths of thousands of men and women...he was the type of person who would have been much better off in math where politics has nothing to do with it...)

Maybe I need to go into this much deeper in order to get my point heard correctly. I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT POLITICAL LEANINGS WHEN I SAID THE US WAS VERY LIBERAL.

The United States is a liberal nation. There is very little within our history that can be considered "conservative". We declared our independence from our mother nation, began a revolutionary war, wrote our own Constitution with its own system of checks and balances to totally change the way of government. We threw out the idea of a monarchy and created our own style of government called a Democracy...with a different type of leader (a President) and everything. Remember that stuff from US History? Plus, remember all of that stuff going on in Iraq, and Afghanistan? And our involvement in the Korean Conflict? How about the World Wars?

That my friends makes us a liberal nation. While I personally, am a conservative, I am one in a liberal nation. This makes me slightly less conservative than one in a more conservative nation.

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The US as a whole is very liberal. On a scale from 1 to 100, with 1 being cons. and 100 being lib, we are like a 75...(according to my political science prof). So, while our conservative Prez seems very liberal, he is, but not as much so as a Democrat. If that makes any sense to y'all...

Just because your "political science prof" says the country is mostly liberal doesn't mean it's true. Don't forget, most profesors and teachers teach from their prospective so it is never valid to accept what they say unless you research the topic yourself.

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The US as a whole is very liberal.

Not compared to the rest of the modern world...20% of Americans consider themselves liberal, I think 35% consider themselves conservative.

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Had a liberal been president, we would've discussed 9/11 over tea with Saddam.

Somehow I highly doubt that. Didn't the both houses of congress approve the resolution to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq nearly unanimously?

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As far as money goes, that's inconsequential when a country's safety is at stake.

BUT FISCALLY BUSH IS NOT CONSERVATIVE.

The US as a whole is very liberal. On a scale from 1 to 100, with 1 being cons. and 100 being lib, we are like a 75...(according to my political science prof). So, while our conservative Prez seems very liberal, he is, but not as much so as a Democrat. If that makes any sense to y'all...