This forum is for relatively serious NOISEmakers who wish to really think about their beliefs. Please no spamming, or posting something you know isn’t constructive, and let’s try to kick the grammar level up a notch.
Okay.
Compromise. It’s gotten us through some tough times in our country’s history. A creative compromise is sometimes needed to really beak a deadlock of competing ideologies. Compromise isn’t for everything, but it’s always something one should consider.
The following forum concern compromise in the issue of abortion.
The abortion issue is a touchy one. Many of the “great” political minds thought it would be the deciding issue in the recent presidential election. I don’t know, but it might have been. A woman’s right to choose and a baby’s right to live gets people fired up pretty quickly. To many, there doesn’t seem to be a ready compromising option available.
That’s what this forum is for.
State whether or not you believe a workable compromise is possible, and go on in the forum to support your answer. If, to you, no compromise should be made, say why. If you think a compromise is possible, see if you can come up with one. I'll come in with my suggestion later.
I have a feeling this will be bashed upon, but I'm not trying to start any big arguments. Really.
The easy comprimise is, of course, Pro-choice becasue it offers the choice of doing it or not. I wouldn't, but for some, it IS the best idea.
Since, I know, that won't work with many people, other comprimises I'm just gonna throw out and we can debate however y'all like:
1. Teach Family Life Ed. (FLE) with boys and girls TOGETHER for at least one lesson, to try to get to both sides at once how awful it would be if two of them ended up with a baby. I know it's unorthodox, and I'm not saying spend that lesson talking about periods or anything. No. That one would be spent on talking to both sides at once about what would happen.
2. Off better/more affordable birth control. (this one is very general, and I don't think it's got much going for it)
3. Have boys and girls spend one weekend having to take care of a baby. The mother/superviser will be standing by, but it'll show you what happpens and how tough it is. Yes, babies are adorable, but they are ALOT OF WORK. If teenagers have to live through this, just for a day or two, maybe it'll make them tihnk twice before having sex or at least they'll think of using better protection.
4. Have teachers, when in FLE go in to extreme, disgusting detail. If nothing else, it'll gross everyone out too much to even consider such a big deal like having sex for a littel while. Hey, it did the trick when our teacher did it to us.
5. Make better condoms. (this is much like the birth control, so, I don't believe this one will go far either)
Well, there are a few for everybody. Debate, hate or love, they're there.
Any other ideas?
Member of the NDLC*, est. 2005 (National Democratic-Liberal Coalition)
It takes two people to have sex. A male and a female.. yet the woman is always the one who is attacked with "abortion? You should have thought of that before having sex!". The man is free to walk away from the situation whenever he feels, and is not as harshly looked apon in society. What about Rape? I don't suppose a 14 year old girl pregnant with a baby really thought about the problems of child birth or parenting when she was being raped. making sacrifices in ones lifestyle is not the only affect of pregnancy on a woman, it also involves child-birth. most girls under 18 are not physically capable to give birth, and the chance of the mother dying in child-birth is increased when they are that young. pro-life? what about the life of the mother? A woman should not be denied the choice of abortion, especially in the face of a life or death situation. I do not nessacarily believe abortion is the right option n some situations, I believe any law that prevents a woman from making her own choice ( or any law that affects women alone) should be put through .
I have to say, I feel sorry for Jimboo. It seems that the thread has drifted from its original spirit. Didn't he say not to write anything you know won't be constructive? This has turned into a pro choice vs pro life debate, with both sides just taking whacks at each other, neither one gaining any ground. Much like the country as a whole is doing. The thread was about compromise, and seeing if we could reach it. Aparently, the people of YouthNoise cannot. Personally, I like Jimboo's idea way back on page 11. Personally, I do not believe that the groups of new cells in a womb is a life until a few months into pregnancy. My logic is this: where can you honestly draw the line? Is a recently fertilized egg a life? Just that single cell, about the same size as part of that speck of dust you breathed in? Some would say so. At a Junior State of America conference this past year, a debate was held about stem cell research. One girl who was opposing the research said that she believed that even an unfertilized egg was a life, because it had a potencial to become a child. Aside from the whole idea of menstruation, one of the other delagates asked a very funny, but good question. "If you believe that an egg is a life, then a sperm would also be a life, so would you condemn masturbation as mass murder?" There has to be a point, later on than fertilization, where the fetus can really be considered a life. Personally, I would never want my wife, or girlfriend, or whatever, to have an abortion, because that little group of cells has the potential to become a life. However, there are some freedoms that mothers should have. One thing to think about, though I know pro-lifers will call it murder and pro-choicers will use it as another case for them, maybe, is whether or not a woman can have an abortion if she finds out her child will be deformed. Certain deformities that can permenantly impede a person's mental or physical health can be detected extremely early on in the pregnancy, almost before the cells begin to differentiate. Jimboo, if you're still reading all of this, would you think a clause about this should or should not be added to your ideas? Like I said, if you believe one way, you'll see this as selevtive murder of the PARTICULARLY weak. Heck, even the pro-choicers might see it as monstrous. But it happens. I don't like it one bit, but it happens. I was lucky. My uncle and aunt decided to go ahead with their child, even though she would be permenantly mentally disabled. I'm glad she got a chance to live. I want to stress that I do not agree with it, but it's a section of the abortion debate that noone's concidered here.
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
Hasn't a compromise already been made? If you don't believe in abortion...don't get one and if you do...get one. It's your body. I just don't see how people think they are OH SO POWERFUL that they think they can tell a woman what she can and cannot do with/to her body. Even if Roe vs. Wade is oveturned, women can go elsewhere and get abortions. If Roe Vs. Wade is ovetturned, be prepared for a lot of dead babies to turn up anyway. If women don't want the baby, they will find SOME way to get rid of it such as poisoning themselves, inducing labor, making themselves miscarry,etc.
**Courtney**Lesbian and Proud**Sorry,Christianity is not my preferred method of suicide and I don't like organized stupidity.
It her and only her decision...if its illegal, women will still get them, only it will be unsafe for the mother. But...i don't see why you care anyway because I don't see how somone else descision can affect your life. It doesn't...it won't and it can't. So..the solution is simple. Don't believe in abortion?? Don't have one.
Compromise? Everyone mind their own dam business...the world would run alot more smoothly!
*Opinions are like @$$holes...everybody's got one*
I'm pro choice because i don't believe someone one I don't know should tell me how to live my life and what I should and should not do.
Yet the government does it everyday. Strange how that is.
quote:
A baby is a big responsibility
Exactly the thoughts that should occur before having sex.
quote:
If someone can't afford to take care of a baby or doesn't want to take care of a baby...they shouldn't have too
Yeah that's why there is adoption.
quote:
Give it up for an adoption you say? Well, we all know there are millions of children waiting to be adopted and its best not to have the child in the system. The whole adoption process is screwed up in America thats why a lot people go to other countries to adopt children.
The child would atleast have it's life to live.
quote:
Basically, its the women's decision to make, and no one has the right to take her decision away.
There are lots of other laws that takes a womens rights away. This is a human life that we are talking about, so yeah actually people do have the right to take her right to decide away.
"I Dream away everyday, Try so hard to disregard The rhythm of t he rain that drops, And coincides with the beating of my heart"
I'm pro choice because i don't believe someone one I don't know should tell me how to live my life and what I should and should not do. A baby is a big responsibility...finacially and otherwise. If someone can't afford to take care of a baby or doesn't want to take care of a baby...they shouldn't have too. I know, I know, "If you don't want to have a baby, don't have sex." Well, everyone should know that people aren't going to stop having sex. I think that h*ll would have to offically freeze over in order for people to stop having sex. Give it up for an adoption you say? Well, we all know there are millions of children waiting to be adopted and its best not to have the child in the system. The whole adoption process is screwed up in America thats why a lot people go to other countries to adopt children. Basically, its the women's decision to make, and no one has the right to take her decision away.
Compromise? Yeah, everyone mind their own dam business, and the world would run alot more smoothly!
*Opinions are like @$$holes...everybody's got one*
Trust me, pro-lifers have plenty of thingsto back us up. We're just savin the good stuff for an argument thats actually worth it. Instead of the same stuff over and over.
what's the good stuff?
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. - E.B.White
Are these the "things" you were talking about?:--- Unborn = Woman's body; Unborn is not human because it is not the same as Bogey or Ohio or Yogore; Unborn is not human because it is not a baby; Unborn is not a human because it can't feed out of a bottle; Unborn is not human because a child is not an adult....
Yeeaahh...you got "things" to back you up.
(I have no idea what you were trying to prove with the "unborn-is-'different'" approach, Yogore. Does the way you eat or breathe make or break your shot at being a human?)
Im sure that there still wouldn't be as many fetuses injured by illegal abortion as there would be by legal abortion.
quote:Nothing like circles, huh Ohio? You've asked this before. Look at my responce.
I asked this on a different board after I asked it here and you didn't answer.Check the days and times yogore.
quote:No, I'm talking about freedoms. But I have multiple things to abck me up, opposed to what prolifers have.
Trust me, pro-lifers have plenty of thingsto back us up. We're just savin the good stuff for an argument thats actually worth it. Instead of the same stuff over and over.
"I Dream away everyday, Try so hard to disregard The rhythm of t he rain that drops, And coincides with the beating of my heart"
quote:If the mother so chooses to try to hurt herself by doing something so stupid. She would know that it wouldn't be safe and yet she would be willing to do that?
I meant for the fetus.
quote: The fetus has a heart beat, what do you consider something that has a heartbeat?
Nothing like circles, huh Ohio? You've asked this before. Look at my responce.
quote: Or it could be that pro-choicers keep saying how its the mothers "right" so we have to get back into the same arguments again.
No, I'm talking about freedoms. But I have multiple things to abck me up, opposed to what prolifers have.
"You learn about equality in the classroom but you find out about it in life" - Campus Confidential www.myspace.com/yogore
Since data is questionable, why don't we make abortion illegal for say, 3 months, and then compare the statistics of deaths due to abortion for the mother, and the statistics of the number of abortions for both legal and illegal abortions?
quote: Earlier you said that you supported it for rape victims. Changing your mind? Why? Do you think that people who have been raped this week are more capable and deserving of carrying a rapists child than the cases of last week which you supported them getting an abortion to get rid of?
I have learned new things, and from these things I have changed my mind on that issue, which I will not argue until I learn even more. I don't want to seem too illiterate.
quote:Which only proves, without legal abortions women will do more damage to themselves and the fetuses by trying to abort their pregnancies by other means.
If they know that they can get hurt and take the chance of trying to perform an illegal abortion then well, Im sorry. Its like someone playing with matches knowing that they could get burnt. Its a risk that they are obviously willing to take. And not every woman is going to try an illegal abortion just because she doesn't want it. More lifes will be saved in the end, and thats a chance that I'm willing to take.
quote:So you are willing to sacrifice painful inhumane deaths of some to save a few fetuses from humane deaths?
If the mother so chooses to try to hurt herself by doing something so stupid. She would know that it wouldn't be safe and yet she would be willing to do that?
quote:That was not your point. your point was that even people who kill accidentally are charged with murder. An abortion is not murder. A fetus isa not a person. Quit being dumb.
The fetus has a heart beat, what do you consider something that has a heartbeat?
quote:We keep coming back to the same arguments and I think it is because prolife people run out of arguments so you just come back to "but it's murder!!!!"
Or it could be that pro-choicers keep saying how its the mothers "right" so we have to get back into the same arguments again.
"I Dream away everyday, Try so hard to disregard The rhythm of t he rain that drops, And coincides with the beating of my heart"
quote:A woman that willing had sex and got pregnant could just lie and say that she was raped. It would just be easier and safer, and would save more lifes if all abortion was out-lawed and only acceptable when both lifes are in danger. This however is just how I feel.
Earlier you said that you supported it for rape victims. Changing your mind? Why? Do you think that people who have been raped this week are more capable and deserving of carrying a rapists child than the cases of last week which you supported them getting an abortion to get rid of?
quote:They willing have sex, and know what may or may not come from this, they try to abort illegal and they as well would know what could come of this and yet its risk they are willing to take.
Which only proves, without legal abortions women will do more damage to themselves and the fetuses by trying to abort their pregnancies by other means.
quote:And still with the few that MAY get injured and harmed by illegal abortion would not compare to the many children that are killed by abortion.
So you are willing to sacrifice painful inhumane deaths of some to save a few fetuses from humane deaths?
quote: Ok then, abortion would be voluntary manslaughter which is worse.
That was not your point. your point was that even people who kill accidentally are charged with murder. An abortion is not murder. A fetus isa not a person. Quit being dumb.
quote: Yeah its not born yet. It's not any less human, and not any less alive then anyone thats born.
Can you prove it? It cannot live without the mother that seems pretty different than a post born child. And don't be dumb and say a newborn cannot be either. We've discussed that.
We keep coming back to the same arguments and I think it is because prolife people run out of arguments so you just come back to "but it's murder!!!!"
"You learn about equality in the classroom but you find out about it in life" - Campus Confidential www.myspace.com/yogore
It acts like a parasite even if it does not fit the exact definition you gave.
According to my Biology Book: "In parasitism, one organism benfots from a symbiotic relationship, and the other is harmed. The organism that benefits is called the parasite while the organism that is harmed is called the host. Some parasites cause only slight damage to the host while others kill it." - Biology: The Study of Life. Prentice Hall. Sixth Edition (c) 1995
"You learn about equality in the classroom but you find out about it in life" - Campus Confidential www.myspace.com/yogore
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