quote:

---

Originally posted by jam_18:

quote:

---

First of all, to me it isn't "someone" because when you kill it's not a person(in my opinion).

---

Oh please!!! Since when will you ever admit a fetus is a human life form?? not exactly a person yet, but a fetus breathes and eats from the placenta which is connected to the mother. Killing the fetus is already killing a human being because a FETUS IS ALREADY A HUMAN LIFE FORM!

---

I'll post this again:
Human life: This is any living entity that has DNA from the species homo sapiens. This includes an ovum, spermatozoon, zygote, embryo, fetus, newborn. It also includes an infant, child, adult, elder. It also includes a breast cancer cell and a hair follicle and a skin scraping. Some forms of human life have little or no value; others are the most valuable and precious form of life in the known universe.

Human person: Any form of human life that is also considered a person, and thereby has civil rights, including the right to life. There is a societal consensus that a newborn is a human person. People disagree about whether a zygote, embryo, or fetus is a human person. People have different opinions about the stage at which human life becomes a human person. This is the core disagreement that drives the abortion wars.



I know it's a human life, but human life and human person = diferent things! Maybe to YOU it's a person from the second it's conceived, but to me it isn't. Don't bother trying to convince me because you won't be able to prove it(it's a matter of opinion).

quote:

---

So you want to take freedoms away from me even though i'm not hurting anyone?? I already told you jamaica you are anti-freedom.

---

You are already hurting others by letting them SEE you drink and use drugs... even those close around you might think that it is good to do those, so you are already hurting them. They might have the ability to say no, but chances are, most people would experiment stuff like that when they see someone doing it.

quote:

---

How come you don't like freedom?

---

of course i like freedom. Freedom to do whatever you want as long as it is toward the path of good.

quote:

---

First of all, to me it isn't "someone" because when you kill it's not a person(in my opinion).

---

Oh please!!! Since when will you ever admit a fetus is a human life form?? not exactly a person yet, but a fetus breathes and eats from the placenta which is connected to the mother. Killing the fetus is already killing a human being because a FETUS IS ALREADY A HUMAN LIFE FORM!

quote:

---

I don't think abortion should be used as birth control because you are killing something that's alive and would eventually become a person

---

quote:

---

And abortion that is not used as a form of birth control doesn't kill something that would eventually become a person? How can that be?

Also, doesn't the MAP kill something that would eventually become a person? Why is that fine?

---

Yes abortion kills something that would eventually have become a person(using it as birth control or not), but I think sometimes it is necessary/the best choice(look at the abortion is Wrong thread I gave a few examples). And no, the MAP does not necessarily kill something that would become a person, you might not even be pregnant when you take it(there's the chance but it's not 100%). And if you are, when you take the pill they're just two cells with human DNA(I think the mother is more important than two cells, even if they have human DNA, they are not people, people have more rights that two cells). Wouldn't you prefer someone to kill two cells(maybe, if she's actually pregnant) than for someone to have an abortion?

quote:

---

But I think I am no one to judge when it is necessary or not.

---

quote:

---

Maya, I don't believe that you have to be in the situation to realize that killing someone is wrong.

---

How can you be so close minded? First of all, to me it isn't "someone" because when you kill it's not a person(in my opinion). And again, I don't LIKE abortion but in some situations it is necessary(even if I don't like it, I can understand that sometimes people choose it). And you do have to be in the situation to know if it is necessary(or at least know the situation).

quote:

---

I think you can imagine what my answer is.(I think the way of improving the situation would be for example with better sex education-not only promoting abstinence, and also improving birth control)

---

quote:

---

I realize what you think the best way of going about this issue is (better sex education), but I was asking if you think a total outlaw on abortion would be better than the system in place now. You said that you didn’t like abortion used as birth control (I still don't know why, though), so you must be angered that most abortions are used as a form of birth control. Wouldn't the drawbacks of outlawing abortion (some women still get illegal abortions) be better than the drawbacks of legal abortions (most abortions kill unborns as a form of birth control)?

---

Could you show me proof that most abortions are used as birth control? I know people who have had abortions and they did it because it was absolutely necessary(not saying that everyone's like that obviously). I don't think most people are like "ok, I'll have another abortion" just like that. I think it must be a pretty tough decision and not as simple as you put it. And to your question, no I don't think a total outlaw would be better than the situation we have right now.(there are other ways of getting people not to use abortion as birth control, if we outlaw it the people that want abortions will recur to illegal abortions wich COULD be dangerous).

quote:

---

Originally posted by jam_18:

quote:

---

Look, drugs and alcohol have changed our world history, there would be no shakespere, no hemmingway, no beatles, no rolling stones, no hendrix, no poe, no dali, no freud, no ginsberg, no andy worhal. I could go on forever and ever. Anything ever made inlife that changed the way we thought for the better.... guess what. drugs and alcohol. Even most religions were thought up because the people were high on drugs. Think about it, some guy was hungry ate a handful load of mushrooms. 1 hour later he's seeing and talking to things that arent even there. No one else is seeing these things so automatically he becomes a prophet. He has this gift to talk to things that arent there. This happened wayyyyyyy before christ, so no one knew it was because of the things he ate. You really have no idea of whats going on in the world. I'm sad for you jamaica.

---

OH????? wow!!!! So, you're saying you WANT us to use drugs??? YOU WANT TO PROMOTE DRUGS TO PEOPLE??? Just tell me, coz when i'll go to the States in a few years (about 2 years), i'll report you. I would really look HAPPY if you get arrested when polic find out you have marijuana and coccaine in your house. I am RIGHTEOUS, dear Bauhaus, so dont expect me to take lightly about all those stuff about drugs....Unlike you, i CARE for other people's health and well-being. YOU??? you want to destroy them.

---

So you want to take freedoms away from me even though i'm not hurting anyone?? I already told you jamaica you are anti-freedom.

How come you don't like freedom?

Oh and the cops in my county or state wont do much about marijuana because they are smart enough to know its harmless.

quote:

---

Look, drugs and alcohol have changed our world history, there would be no shakespere, no hemmingway, no beatles, no rolling stones, no hendrix, no poe, no dali, no freud, no ginsberg, no andy worhal. I could go on forever and ever. Anything ever made inlife that changed the way we thought for the better.... guess what. drugs and alcohol. Even most religions were thought up because the people were high on drugs. Think about it, some guy was hungry ate a handful load of mushrooms. 1 hour later he's seeing and talking to things that arent even there. No one else is seeing these things so automatically he becomes a prophet. He has this gift to talk to things that arent there. This happened wayyyyyyy before christ, so no one knew it was because of the things he ate. You really have no idea of whats going on in the world. I'm sad for you jamaica.

---

OH????? wow!!!! So, you're saying you WANT us to use drugs??? YOU WANT TO PROMOTE DRUGS TO PEOPLE??? Just tell me, coz when i'll go to the States in a few years (about 2 years), i'll report you. I would really look HAPPY if you get arrested when polic find out you have marijuana and coccaine in your house. I am RIGHTEOUS, dear Bauhaus, so dont expect me to take lightly about all those stuff about drugs....Unlike you, i CARE for other people's health and well-being. YOU??? you want to destroy them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jam_18:

quote:

---

Do you like music jamaica? because guess what... Id rather be listening to good music (all of the bands used drugs heavily even more than me) or new kids on the block who never used drugs.

---

Yes, i love music especially country music and yes i know they used drugs sometimes, but i'd certainly NOT follow their footsteps just because they are good musicians or anything....... I dont follow the crowd Mr. Bauhaus, i MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Doing drugs just because others do that too makes you cheap and makes you like someone who is desperate to run and join the bandwagon instead of be someone UNIQUE.

---

I'm unique just like everyone else.


(lets see if jamaica actually gets what I just said)


(probably not, so I will explain)


Everyone trys to be unique and they all go about it the same way. wow the irony there.

Look, drugs and alcohol have changed our world history, there would be no shakespere, no hemmingway, no beatles, no rolling stones, no hendrix, no poe, no dali, no freud, no ginsberg, no andy worhal. I could go on forever and ever. Anything ever made inlife that changed the way we thought for the better.... guess what. drugs and alcohol. Even most religions were thought up because the people were high on drugs. Think about it, some guy was hungry ate a handful load of mushrooms. 1 hour later he's seeing and talking to things that arent even there. No one else is seeing these things so automatically he becomes a prophet. He has this gift to talk to things that arent there. This happened wayyyyyyy before christ, so no one knew it was because of the things he ate. You really have no idea of whats going on in the world. I'm sad for you jamaica.

quote:

---

Do you like music jamaica? because guess what... Id rather be listening to good music (all of the bands used drugs heavily even more than me) or new kids on the block who never used drugs.

---

Yes, i love music especially country music and yes i know they used drugs sometimes, but i'd certainly NOT follow their footsteps just because they are good musicians or anything....... I dont follow the crowd Mr. Bauhaus, i MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Doing drugs just because others do that too makes you cheap and makes you like someone who is desperate to run and join the bandwagon instead of be someone UNIQUE.

Do you like music jamaica? because guess what... Id rather be listening to good music (all of the bands used drugs heavily even more than me) or new kids on the block who never used drugs.

quote:

---

so you think locusts are a goood thing? because thats basically what humans are.

---

If that is what you think bauhaus dear, then fine.... But well, im not that stupid and cheap to describe humans as locusts and i wont ever. You're the only one who said humans are locusts, so then YOU'RE a locust too.... Tell me something.... Do locusts smoke and do drugs too?

quote:

---

If she was raped, her life/the child's life is in jeopardy, or she chooses to abort during the first trimester, her rights should not be questioned.

---

In rape cases, we cannot help but pity for the woman, but still it is HER RESPONSIBILITY to raise the child because a part of it is HER OWN. The child which results from the product of a rape doesnt mean THAT child is evil. Plus, the woman didnt just say, "hey, I will not get pregnant because this time i am being raped", with just snap of her finger. A woman can bear a child whether or not she had consensual sex or raped. Therefore, both situations results in pregnancy, but that doesnt mean it is the baby's FAULT. You can either, raise it or have it for adoption but you dont KILL it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jam_18:

quote:

---

If the mother does not wish to be a host for an unwanted parasite for nine or more months, she should have the legal right to rid herself of that parasite.

---

whoever made this quote (above) surely thinks everyone is a parasite including himself/herself. If you think the baby inside the mother is a parasite, then you are a parasite yourself, and so is your mother and the rest of the human beings, for the fact is, everyone else... moms, dads, grandparents, relatives, friends and others COME from another human being and if you call them a parasite, you are calling the same to yourself.

---

so you think locusts are a goood thing? because thats basically what humans are.

quote:

---

A fetus is not the same as a person who has been born. And I'll be nice and leave it at that.

---

ANY person that was born or IS born was once a fetus, yogore... And no, you are NOT being nice if you decide to kill a human life inside a woman.... whether you choose FOR her, or be her SUPPORTER for abortion.

quote:

---

I know that in the current system we have in place now, the woman does have the right to choose. That is a fact. But, you didn't say why she should have that right? Why should she have a right to end another's life?

---

I agree with Bogey! a woman has the right to choose, but she doesnt have the right to end someone's life, be it another person, or her own child.

quote:

---

If the mother does not wish to be a host for an unwanted parasite for nine or more months, she should have the legal right to rid herself of that parasite.

---

whoever made this quote (above) surely thinks everyone is a parasite including himself/herself. If you think the baby inside the mother is a parasite, then you are a parasite yourself, and so is your mother and the rest of the human beings, for the fact is, everyone else... moms, dads, grandparents, relatives, friends and others COME from another human being and if you call them a parasite, you are calling the same to yourself.

quote:

---

By the time you have an abortion they aren't just two little insignificant cells

---

So, you think that abortion kills something that's significant?

quote:

---

I don't think abortion should be used as birth control because you are killing something that's alive an would eventually become a person

---

And abortion that is not used as a form of birth control doesn't kill something that would eventually become a person? How can that be?

Also, doesn't the MAP kill something that would eventually become a person? Why is that fine?

quote:

---

But I think I am no one to judge when it is necessary or not.

---

Maya, I don't believe that you have to be in the situation to realize that killing someone is wrong.

quote:

---

I think you can imagine what my answer is.(I think the way of improving the situation would be for example with better sex education-not only promoting abstinence, and also improving birth control)

---

I realize what you think the best way of going about this issue is (better sex education), but I was asking if you think a total outlaw on abortion would be better than the system in place now. You said that you didn’t like abortion used as birth control (I still don't know why, though), so you must be angered that most abortions are used as a form of birth control. Wouldn't the drawbacks of outlawing abortion (some women still get illegal abortions) be better than the drawbacks of legal abortions (most abortions kill unborns as a form of birth control)?

quote:

---

I don't think abortion should be used as birth control like I've stated many times

---

quote:

---

Why, Maya? What makes birth control abortion wrong? The unborn is just cells that don't have rights, correct?

---

Nope. By the time you have an abortion they aren't just two little insignificant cells(they are just two cells with human DNA when you take the morning after pill not when you abort). I don't think abortion should be used as birth control because you are killing something that's alive an would eventually become a person but nevertheless I think it has to remain legal because there are situations where it's necessary/the best option. But I think I am no one to judge when it is necessary or not.

quote:

---

I don't think making it ilegal is the solution.

---

quote:

---

It may not be "the" solution, but don't you think it would be an improvement from the system we have in place now?

---

I think you can imagine what my answer is.(I think the way of improving the situation would be for example with better sex education-not only promoting abstinence, and also improving birth control)

quote:

---

Let's dissect this, shall we? :

Fanatical: marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion. See: extremist, rabid, radical, revolutional, revolutionary, revolutionist, ultra, ultraist:

---

quote:

---

Religious: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity; of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances; scrupulously and conscientiously faithful; fervent, zealous:

<No need for quotes; you all bring God into everything>

---

Gem, I have not brought God into this issue at all. This is not a religious issue, as many of you think. And since many non-religious people think that this is a religious issue, they feel that they have to rebel and be against the pro-life side, for the sole fact that it is the “religious” side. But again, this is not a religious issue and I have not used God in my argument. So, the "all" in your statement made your statement false and a lie. Also, the “everything” made your statement false and a lie, as well – I don’t bring God into baseball or lasagna.

quote:

---

Dolt: a stupid person. Well, that's fairly straight forward:

---

quote:

---

Hmm. What were you saying now, Bog?

---

Okay, after reviewing your posts, one thought came into my mind and it was: What the hell was Gem trying to prove, all I said was, “I love how the term ‘fanatical, religious dolts’ is bestowed upon people who want to defend innocent human lives”? For the record, I also love how people that play baseball are called “Baseball Players.”

Anyway, I’ll ask this then: Why is someone “stupid” for trying to defend innocent human lives?

quote:

---

If the mother does not wish to be a host for an unwanted parasite for nine or more months, she should have the legal right to rid herself of that parasite.

---

quote:

---

Also, I do not always agree with abortion.

---

quote:

---

If she simply wants an abortion out of convenience, I do not agree.

---

You claim that the unborn is a parasite that the mother has total control over. You claim that the mother should be allowed to get rid of it if she wants to (I don't agree with this stance, but fine, it's your stance).

But here is where I really get baffled. After you just said that the unborn is pretty much property of the mother in which the mother can dispose of it, you now say that the mother should not be able to dispose of this "parasite" in her body if she was "irresponsible" during sex. How can your stance change so quickly? Does the fact that the mother got pregnant through unsafe sex now make the "parasite" a worthwhile being that deserves life - even if the mother would rather have it dead? Isn’t the unborn still a measly little parasite? Why should the mother all of a sudden not have the right to dispose of it? Please explain.

quote:

---

I don't think abortion should be used as birth control like I've stated many times

---

Why, Maya? What makes birth control abortion wrong? The unborn is just cells that don't have rights, correct?

quote:

---

I don't think making it ilegal is the solution.

---

It may not be "the" solution, but don't you think it would be an improvement from the system we have in place now?

quote:

---

It's still the woman's choice

---

quote:

---

it's the woman's choice!

---

quote:

---

a woman should choose

---

I know that in the current system we have in place now, the woman does have the right to choose. That is a fact. But, you didn't say why she should have that right? Why should she have a right to end another's life?

quote:

---

and you can't control what the woman will do.

---

No, we can't. But, the law can. The law can prohibit women from stealing. The law can prohibit women from committing murder. The law can prohibit women from smoking in a hospital. The law can prohibit women from drunk driving. You see, this country is based on freedom. But, freedom ends when someone's superior right is being infringed upon. Life (unborn), in the abortion issue, is a superior right to convenience (mother), and thus abortion is irrational.

quote:

---

Are you implying these children would have rather been aborted?

---

No, I was saying that get all the children adopted that want/need to be adopted (with parents they're missing, or whatever I said, I meant adoptive parents). After you get all the children adopted, prove to me that there are still people out their looking for children to adopt, and we'll talk more in depth on the issue of abortion.