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If she willingly had sex (this goes for rape victims as well, but we won't go into that now), then she knew the consequences.

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What do you mean a rape victim WILLINGLY has sex? That's bull****.

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If she willingly had sex (this goes for rape victims as well, but we won't go into that now), then she knew the consequences.

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Oh, please do go into it now. I'm dying to hear about how rape victims 'willingly' had sex. (That's what I'm picking up from your post, Boges.

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And if she was even a "responsible" girl (I am giving her waaay to much credit) and used protection, then she would surely realize that she could even become pregnant by being "safe."

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Oh, please somebody blame the ****ing guy already as well?

This weekend I was lucky enough to receive the distinct "pleasure" of bartending a Catholic right to life benefit here in Omaha. This event was attended by a Senator and a House Representative from our "Great" red state.
The Irony here is that my mother is a director of fundraising for planned parenthood locally, so I was a bit of a non-captive audience. Normally I would be too busy serving drinks to listen to speakers at these things but barely anybody was drinking so I got to actually concentrate on the speaker, a Dr. from California.
His biggest argument that I have a hard time refuting is the following question:
When is a person not a person?
If we are willing to abort babies because they can not yet reason, what stops us from taking organs from people in coma's or people with alzheimers?
Personally I am not sure how to decide on this issue, I think it is a woman's choice to decide on her body and my intelligent female friend feels the same way, she sent me this funny letter from alt.usenet.:

Dear Officials of the United States Government,

I thought I would just get in touch and let you know what is going on in my reproductive system and general private area lately. You
seem really interested, and I wouldn't want to put you to the trouble of subpoenaing my medical records just to find out what's
happening in my uterus.

I know it might be hard to believe, but some guys think a woman's natural cycles and secretions are "yucky." Some guys are too
squeamish to pick up a box of tampons at the drugstore if you ask them to. The first lady is lucky to have a partner like you, Mr.
President, a person who wishes to be intimately involved not only in his wife's reproductive system, but in those of all the other women in America as well.

It's hard to compromise on an issue that involves life, such as this or the death penalty.

Actually, a fetus is just that, a fetus. I dont think it's "nothing until it's born". And I don't believe in late term abortions when the fetus could have the capability of feeling anything. I believe that abortions should not be done past twelve weeks actually, though our laws say 24 weeks.

And actually, I do think of the life of the fetus, or that of the possible child. Which means that I think that if a woman is not emotionally ready to handle a child, then the fetus would be better off being aborted, rather than living a life with a mother that did not want it.

If a woman is willing to look into adoption, then great. If she can find a family that is willing to adopt the child from birth rather than putting the baby into the system like tons of other kids that are waiting to be adopted, even better! But adoption isn't for everyone, and sometimes abortion seems like a person's only choice. I do not believe that a mass of cells (which is technically what a fetus is very early on) has the same rights as a living breathing human. And my position on that will not change, no matter how many ignorant people try to make stupid generalizations and lump pro=choicers into a category with serial killers.

Po-choicers are narrow minder because they don't think about the life of the fetus, the feelings it may have, the pain it may feel. They think that mother is entitled to more right then the fetus. They seem to think that a fetus life is nothing until it is born. That is very narrow minded. A human is a human, and taking a human life is wrong. A fetus is most definately a human and definately a life, so why does the mother ( the one responsable for concieving the child) have more rights to her lifestyle then the child should have to its life?

How do you figure that pro-choicers are narrow minded. I did not once say that pro-lifers were narrow minded. That is a generalization. Not all pro-lifers are the same, and not all pro-choicers are the same. I simply stated that if that was the way your thought process worked, then you were a narrow minded person. However, you said that it was a joke, which I just didn't catch the first time I read it. So therefore, the comment was not directly related to you since that is NOT the way you think.

However, making generalizations about large groups of people isn't exactly a smart idea either. Now PLEASE explain to me why pro-choicers in general are narrow minded. I'd love to hear why I'm so narrow minded.

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That is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. So you're saying that because those people who are pro-choice happen to be outnumbered on this board, that they should give up their beliefs? If that is the way you think, then you, my friend, are a very narrow-minded person.

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I agree that its very narrow minded, but thats why its just a joke and the winky face is there. Pro-choicers are also narrow minded people.

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I'm with you guys!

For the rest of you, you know what they say " When in Rome"

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That is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. So you're saying that because those people who are pro-choice happen to be outnumbered on this board, that they should give up their beliefs? If that is the way you think, then you, my friend, are a very narrow-minded person.

Jamaica:

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Whatever, im still not giving up. Abortion IS wrong.

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Bogey:

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Good for you. Neither am I.

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I'm with you guys!

For the rest of you, you know what they say " When in Rome"

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I think that thread is more for those who choose abortion than those who think it is wrong. I mean, i have been posting a lot of posts there and most of the arguements states that abortion is OK....

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You may be right, Jamaica. But, quantity doesn't bring about quality.

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Whatever, im still not giving up. Abortion IS wrong.

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Good for you. Neither am I.

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Thanks for answering. You should go into the "Abortion is Wrong" thread to debate about the practice of abortion.

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I think that thread is more for those who choose abortion than those who think it is wrong. I mean, i have been posting a lot of posts there and most of the arguements states that abortion is OK.... Whatever, im still not giving up. Abortion IS wrong.

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Originally posted by Bogey:
You should go into the "Abortion is Wrong" thread to debate about the practice of abortion.

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::shudders:: The name of the post intimidates me. I have no interest in being eaten alive tonight thankyouverymuch.

And about the commen sense thing, that is very true...

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I believe that it is not right to terminate a pregnancy after arounf 24 weeks because that is around the time when the fetus may be able to survive outside the womb. That's the distinguising factor for Me...

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Thanks for answering. You should go into the "Abortion is Wrong" thread to debate about the practice of abortion.

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I mean, it's common sense that one should not be able to carry a pregnancy to near term, and decide two weeks before her due date that she doesn't want to go through with it anymore, and she wants to "abort" the fetus at that point.

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Many things seem like they would be considered "common sense," but then they turn out not to be.

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I believe that it is not right to terminate a pregnancy after arounf 24 weeks because that is around the time when the fetus may be able to survive outside the womb. That's the distinguising factor for Me...

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I agree..

Ok, I'm going to answer your question, but I'm really trying not to get back into the right/wrong debate here...

I believe that it is not right to terminate a pregnancy after arounf 24 weeks because that is around the time when the fetus may be able to survive outside the womb. That's the distinguising factor for Me...

And as far as compromise goes, I was stating that what we have now isn't really much of a compromise, it's pretty much a pro-choice way of looking at abortion (as far as the law goes). I mean, it's common sense that one should not be able to carry a pregnancy to near term, and decide two weeks before her due date that she doesn't want to go through with it anymore, and she wants to "abort" the fetus at that point.

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I guess in the sense that you can't go in 38 weeks pregnant and decide you want an "abortion", there's a compromise, but that's about it

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As I said, I don't think there will be a compromise that will make both sides happy.

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And even most pro-choicers will agree that abortions should not be performed past around 24 weeks.

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Why is that? The unborn is still in the mother's body, right?

In New Jersey, right now it is perfectly legal to have an abortion up until I bleieve (could be wrong here) 24 weeks. However, most clinics will not perform one past 12 weeks. There is no rule saying only for those who's lives are in danger/were raped/etc. I guess in the sense that you can't go in 38 weeks pregnant and decide you want an "abortion", there's a compromise, but that's about it... And even most pro-choicers will agree that abortions should not be performed past around 24 weeks.

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Getting back on topic, how do YOU feel about the ability to come to a compromise on the issue. Do you think it's possible? And what would your suggestion be if you do think it's possible?

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I mean, we have a compromise as of now. I don't think there will ever (unless there's a miracle) be a compromise in which both sides are perfectly happy. But, as I said, isn't there a compromise right now? I, personally, would love abortion to be outlawed except if both lives are in danger (which almost never happens), but I know many people would be unhappy.

Getting back on topic, how do YOU feel about the ability to come to a compromise on the issue. Do you think it's possible? And what would your suggestion be if you do think it's possible?

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Can we all stop bickering like children now?

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I do believe we have the ability to. Do you want to stop?