Wouldn't it make sense?

You people need to start doing the research and fact-checking.

The photo of Kerry sitting two rows behind the traitor Communist Jane Fonda was in the Dallas Morning News today:

http://www.dallasnews.com

Kerry stabbed our Vietnam veterans in the back.

He left POWs and MIAs to die.

He protested with Communist Party members and sympathizers.

It would only be fitting that Kerry pick Jane Fonda to be his running mate.

Here's what Kerry testified before Congress about our U.S. servicemen when he got back (which is why our vets got spat upon, called names, etc.):

Soldiers, Kerry testifed, had

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...raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs ... poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam."

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Kerry never provided evidence or names of the individuals he alleged to have committed these acts.

He was parading around with pro-Viet Cong supporters with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

Look it up, folks.

Kerry's a communist.

He's a traitor too, and should be executed.

go emancipate yourself

I will not have some ignorant fool implying that Kerry is would leave his comrades captured by the Vietnamese behind to die. If you want to criticise Kerry, why don't you go to war somewhere. You're old enough to enlist. Come on. See what it's like. I'm sure you'll see things with your own eyes. Maybe you'll realise that Kerry was just telling the truth about what happened in the war he fought. Maybe you'll see the true face of war. You Republicans talk of sending men to war, maybe you fat policy makers ought to see what it's like. Maybe it'll put things in perspective.
I haven't experienced war, but then again I'm 16.

Oh, good people have come out of Texas (Molly Ivans, colourful immigrants...and plenty of other people who I am not willing to make the effort to come up with.) However, Joey fufills many of the requirements of the archetypal Texan. And he's insane.

In keeping with the spirit of Joey, I've decided that from now on everyone who doesn't exactly agree with my own political views shall be called a Communist. I also loved your statement about selective application of the Constitution. You've got a great thing going, my friend! First, let's call everyone we don't like a dirty communist, and then deny them the basic rights offered to every American BECAUSE they're a dirty Communist. I'm sorry, what was I thinking? These people I've just decided to call Communists aren't really Americans at all! Since they mostly seem to hold to the belief that capitolism is the best economic system, but that it is slightly flawed and needs a little correction, they aren't worthy of being called Americans! My stupid friend watching me write this just said that statement was fascist; God, what a stupid COMMUNIST he is!

In all seriousness, though, we have to get rid of these stupid generalizations. Kerry may be a liberal, but he is not a Communist. On that note, ComradeSmurf, you raise good points and then proceed to call your opponents "stupid Texans," another generalization. Many intelligent, fair, balanced, honest people have come out of Texas, such as...umm...er...wait, never mind.

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Couldn't the early-years of America's history (pre-constitution) arguably be called a Libertarian Oligarchy? Basically the federal government was weak, the power was concentrated in the hands of an elite few, and free-market classical liberal ideas had formed the basis of a new society

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Granted the Federal government didn't have as much power but still back then state and local governments had considerably more power. The only thing that didn't exist back then was income tax, but property tax, which was put on all possessions was pretty much equivalent to income tax.
Besides that form of government was more appropriate for that time period, seeing as the majority of business in America was farming.
Also the "free-market classical liberal ideas” were made up for circumstances of that time, so they are hardly appropriate now. Also I hardly call the Libertarian ideas of "capitalism" one in the same with that of Adam Smith the various other famous economists/philosophers of the time. The way I see it Libertarians are manipulating history with delusional fantasies, in particular classical liberal philosophy.
I highly suggest you check out
Colin Bird's "The Myth of Liberal Individualism"
and
William J. Novak "The People's Welfare: Law and Regulation in Nineteenth-Century America (Studies in Legal History)"
I believe shed a lot of light on some of the Libertarian fantasies.

DJ: Couldn't the early-years of America's history (pre-constitution) arguably be called a Libertarian Oligarchy? Basically the federal government was weak, the power was concentrated in the hands of an elite few, and free-market classical liberal ideas had formed the basis of a new society. That sounds like at least a libertarian-leaning society, albeit an unstable one.

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maybe you meant ignorance, which again is an ADJECTIVE.

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Err, ignorance is a noun, but it can't be employed in the way the sentence did.

I've never called myself a communist, I'm not a communist, I do not support the installation of communist governments. You are an insane, illogical Texan.

Bushsupporter, ACTING LIKE A COMPLETE AND UTTER UPPER-CLASS JACKASS IN NO WAY MAKES YOU RIGHT ABOUT ANYTHING. All you have is whiny, meaingless, blathering rhetoric. You have no ideas. Your only objective is to maintain preexisting social order and your utter jackassy status. Even if you don't happen to have that status, that is all you achieve.
The entire right-wing is based on ignoring History. And although world and American history has not been a constant stream of progress, Progressivism and enviromentalism must eventually succeed, because it is vital to the survival of the human race to advance and better itself, and not cling desperately to old ideologies and old social orders.
All of you can call me a traitor ot the United States as much as you want, but in the end, you are traitors to all of humanity with your insane quasi-religious right-wing lecturing. You can say that you are preventing the down-fall of society or civilization, but you are only promoting the cancerous, decaying, heat death of human societies. Truly liberal, progressive, thoughtful government aimed at improving lives has never brought down society, it has only slowly improved it. If we follow your narrow-minded philsopies, we will find ourselves damaged by a planet completely incapable of supporting us, death, and destabalizing discontents who have put up with your conservative opression.
Are Democrats, Greens, or others who will oppose Republicanism always right? Certainly not, issues must be carefully thought through and debated. Are Republicans and others on the right occaisonally correct? This is a definite possibility. However, the overarching philosophy, the movement of the right-wing, is fundamentally WRONG.

Species Traitors.

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nuts trying to argue with these ignorants

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Typed as the fountain of irony overflows.
But maybe I'll have to spell it out for an IGNORATE fool, such as you. The word "ignorants" isn't an actual word. Perhaps you meant ignorant, which is an ADJECTIVE and therefore can't be used as a NOUN, which you did with your passage. Or maybe you meant ignorance, which again is an ADJECTIVE.

I see that the extreme leftist lies have finally gotten to you and that you are now having a hard time responding in a calm fashion. I applaud you for lasting this long before going completely nuts trying to argue with these ignorants. It's ok, it happens to the best of us. Marine16 and I tried to rebut these egregious claims in a mature and controlled fashion back in the beginning, but the madness eventually gets to you. I think that it is the only way that you can get them to understand is through anger and calloused comments. I do not look down on you at all. In fact I think that I will start a Disgusted Anonymous group for those of us who can no longer respond calmly to the crazyness that these people call a legitimate ideology. The far left must be shot down with screaming not logic because they cannot comprehend the latter.


"Freedom is not Free"-Korean War Memorial, Washington DC.

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The reason America is the most powerful nation on this earth is not because of your failed and misguided economic policies.

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And it’s hardly because of your nutso-Libertarian economic theories.
The US didn't become a world power until we implemented "communist" economic policies. As much as you and your chums like to Romanticize about the early days of this country the simple fact is we have ALWAYS had a mixed economy.
Give me ONE freaking example of a Libertarian Society, please give me freaking one. Until you provide me with a working example of libertarianism I will still hold that Libertarianism is simply a Utopian ideal.

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You're either for it or against it

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Why am I not surprised you would employee an either/or tactic into a debate. A

Also you have hit an all time low with your Quoting out of Context tactic, which Dante pointed out; it's a sad state in this country when this passes for "good" reporting.

[This message was edited by djmagnusa on February 24, 2004 at 08:12 PM.]

wow.
He'll be really hot if he shaves off his beard!!!!

If I find out the truth about the Kerry photo I'll be more than glad to retract it.

But he's still a Communist. Just look at his voting record.

Anyway, Comrade, shut the hell up. You're an enemy. You're a red enemy. You no longer have any credibility. Your political views haven't propped up any economy or country since the foundation of Communism, so therefore, save us all a big thread post and shut up.

You say you "believe in the meaning" of the Constitution, which, I dunno, that's kind of confusing. You're either for it or against it. How can you be for something while still being against it?

Communism is the polar opposite of what this country was founded upon.

The reason America is the most powerful nation on this earth is not because of your failed and misguided economic policies.

"They ... raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power," he told a Senate committee in 1971 when he was just home from the war, and "cut off limbs, [blew] up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam."

As we know, the purposeful excision (or insertion) of only a few words can significantly transform a message. This is one of the most blatant examples of editorial artwork I have seen in quite some time. Herewith, text from the relevant section of Kerry’s testimony:

“I would like to talk on behalf of all those veterans and say that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.”

“They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.”

John Kerry is entitled to his opinions, both then and now, whether we agree with him or not, and the public is entitled to more professionalism from a self-styled "investigative journalist".

Retract. Now.

1) the photo was taken two years before Fonda's infamous trip to Hanoi; and 2) it wasn't a photo of Kerry with Fonda but it just showed them in the same audience.

The Truth About John Kerry

Comrade, while I agree by law the war was not legal, that still does not give YOU or any of your Communist superstars free game to go and DELIBERATELY have our men tortured.

I don't see why you'd even bring the Constitution into the argument. The Constitution is not for Communists, it's for patriots. You, from the threads you've posted, are absolutely condemning of this republic and to me, you're an enemy.

Not many young people know about Hanoi Jane, but just the fact you would even circumvent the real argument in favor of our Congress' dereliction to declare war shows just how red you are.

You're despicable.

Even if political protest was legally "giving aid and comfort to the enemy," which it can only be in a fascist state, the North Vietnamese were never legally our enemies, we never legally declared war. So, no matter how crazy and old-school red-scared you are, don't bring legal things into it.

NuShoes, of course he knew.

I mean, you had Jane Fonda of all people sit there in front of TV cameras and seeing to it that our men were tortured.

She should have been executed when she got back to the U.S.

Kerry did confess to killing a 12 y/o in Vietnam.