Okey. Well there has been much discussion -- and I am sure that will be the subject of several responses to this topic, but bear with me-- on this idea of the Church and the State.

First! Let us establish that a Christian Confederation was not the original intent of the first colonist. No one at Jamestown had in mind, founding a "Christian Republic" when they came here. No, matter-of-factly American was founded on the hope of profit. Fountain Youth, Gold mines, Trade route with China through the west, and finding slaves and even more idea's in mind to makes themselves famous, rich and happy for the rest of their lives. Of course it's ironic that they result to cannibalism to stay alive, but beside the point.

On the issue of the founding fathers. Yes, the vast majority of them where Christians. There were a few "deist", yes, but around 90% were Christians. And as well, it is no secret that many people came to America --both Protestants and Catholics alike-- to flee persecution. The Church of England made it clear "Convert or Die". Many people here in America were also Calvinist, who DO believe in a Church controlled state. And there were allot of founding fathers who were Calvinist. So there are some founding fathers who were intent on the church having some control of the state.

But let be logical. The bible a guide to living, not a political proclamation. And history has shown Religion is not a good form of government. The fact is not everyone in America is Christian, so therefore they should not be forced to adhere to Christian standards. Not to mention anything the state gets involved in ends up FUBARed, and well te church is FUBARed enough as it is. So a separation is best.

However, having said that. I would like the extreme opposite end of the spectrum to realize that they are taking this a little to far. Someone praying in school, or reading their bibles in a courthouse is NOT the government "establishing a religion". If someone wants to erect a statue of Satan in a courthouse rotunda, then the Christians in this country will literally be up in arms and cry for separation. But if a Judge wants to read the Bible in his office, or have a prayer before he eats lunch there, then why shouldn't he? Or if a Muslim police officer wants to pray on his rug at noon in his uniform and on the clock, by all means let him!

Separation does not mean the PEOPLE who are subject to that government cannot have religion, but the government itself cannot officially have a religion.

But that's just what I think.

quote:

The Church of England made it clear "Convert or Die".

Well, more like become part of the Church of England or don't take part in any Government at all and be persecuted. "Convert or Die" is really not entirely accurate.

Well said all around. Even if this topic has been brought up a thousand times before, you probably said the most correct and most thorough response I've seen.