Question:
Should the death penalty be used as a means of punishment to criminals?

Choices:
yes
no
undecided

 

right there is no gene to make you grow a goofy hair cut toothbrush mustache and give you a serious hatred of Jews nor is there one that says to you "going out and raping that girl and then cutting her head off would feel really good" Genes don't control sexual choice, wether your a murderer or anything else along those lines genetics are just a cop out

Most death penalty arguments (on both side) are based on emotion. Hell, the entire concept of a death penalty is ruled by emotion. It's why the English, the more logical lawmakers (in the sense that their head overrules their heart) have abolished it. While America, a country whose foundation was based on passion and heart, still has it.

I completely understand your point. I'm just saying that genetic predisposition doesn't excuse anything. If you're literally mentally retarded? Then yes, it could've been an accident or otherwise. But anyone who makes the argument that they are just naturally aggressive is either lying or using a cop-out.

Besides, legally, you'd never prove that there is a gene that makes you a killer. There may be a gene for aggressiveness (amp and I have both said that we have this) but actions (such as taking a knife to someone or viciously raping a woman) are not genetic.

Once again, I agree...sort of. I do think that humans are responsible to a point, anyway.

But I guess I don't feel comfortable executing people who aren't completely responsible for their actions. That just feels wrong to me.

quote:

I believe that to enjoy murder and committing it takes conscious and developed feelings

I think so too. I think these "genetically deficient" people are capable of such feelings.

I guess most of my opinion about this is based on emotion. I'm having a hard time articulating my thoughts.

Thanks for that first clarification, blue.

Still, though, I think that's a major cop-out. Genetic disposition doesn't cause actions. Being genetically predisposed to being a "killer" would be the equivalent of being genetically predisposed to having alcoholism. The gene is there, but there is an action that you consciously make (asking for a beer) that you are responsible for. Being gay doesn't necessarily require an action. You can be gay long before you act upon your desires toward the same sex.

So my point is, your genes don't exclude you from society's rules and regulations. They're merely a guideline for you, not your fate. People with these "genes" (if this is the case, which I do not believe. I believe that to enjoy murder and committing it takes conscious and developed feelings) that have endangered the public, should be removed.

quote:

Just because something is inhuman, doesn't mean it's a mental disorder.

I agree. I didn't word that correctly. I believe that people don't choose to be gay. It is their nature to be attracted to the same sex. Similarly, I believe that, in general, those psycho serial killers are mentally pre-disposed to be that way. It is their nature.

quote:

No, serial killers enjoy what they do.

I agree. That is sick. That is unhaman. They are genetically built to be that way. No "normal" human would enjoy it.

Gangs are different. But in regard to serial killers, I still believe that there is something mentally/genetically wrong. I believe that some know the difference between right and wrong. They can speak it, but they may not understand it or how "normal" person would understand it.

quote:

I never said that these people were not smart. But I do believe they have some sort of mental deficiency that causes them to enjoy murder. It is unhuman to enjoy such a thing, hence the mental problem.

You sound like your sticking up for murderers. Like "awww cmon guys, but he's mentally ill." Booooooooooooooshit. Alot of people are mentally ill, does everyone who has thoughts about getting revenge killing someone do it? No, serial killers enjoy what they do. Let me reference.

"Motivations are behind every action. Criminals leave psychological clues behind. Experts say the motives in serial killers are personal. They enjoy being elusive and the celebrity status. Their egos and desire for attention, encourage them to exaggerate or confess to killings they did not commit. Some want to be known as notorious killers and resent being upstaged."

"With all of them, their motives tend to be total, deep and personal," said Mike Rustigan, professor of criminology at San Francisco State University. "They feel no guilt, no remorse and have an attitude of total disdain towards their victims. . There's a self-importance that runs in all of them."

http://karisable.com/crserial.htm

* Missionaries - They think it is their responsibility to rid society of unwanted elements.
* Hedonists - Kill because murder causes them pleasure.
* Lust Killers - Kill for sexual gratification with acts that are usually sadistic.
* Thrill Killers - Kill because of a desire for a thrill or experience.
* Gain Killers - Kill for personal gain. The killer premeditates the act to require financial gain or materialistic goods. While gain is not the main motive in a murder some serial killers have took the opportunity to steal from their victims for their own personal gain.
* Power Seekers - Kill for the desire to have control over the life and death of others

Ok, so blue basically the insanity thing, just isn't a good enough justification. Basically most crimes have specific motivation i mean im talking from a gas station robbery (to gain money) to a gang shooting (gang reasons)...many serial killers are motivated, with desire, hatred twards woman, sex, ect...are you saying that really everyone who commits crimes are mentally ill so we should take it easy on criminals? No, even extremely mentally unstable people, still know the difference between right and wrong, and thats one of the few things there sure of, because its been instilled in our minds since we were baby's. Your learn the essentials of right and wrong from the first minute you open your eyes. Are you telling me that if you asked most serial killers if they understood what they did, if it was wrong, they would say no. That's wrong blue, they know. I dont see your point?

Just because something is inhuman, doesn't mean it's a mental disorder. The person could just genuinely enjoy murder. There's tons of variations in our species, some good, some bad. Some people are gay, some people are stubborn, some people enjoy murder, and some people enjoy S&M. It's those people whose personality variations endanger the public who should be locked away, and in extreme cases, killed.

I feel that my feelings would be irrational because I would be associated with the crime. Judges recuse themselves from cases with which they are associated. I would have to do the same thing.

I never said that these people were not smart. But I do believe they have some sort of mental deficiency that causes them to enjoy murder. It is unhuman to enjoy such a thing, hence the mental problem.

quote:

Marine, I think in the situation you described, I would certainly want the serial killer to be executed. However, that desire would be the result of an irrational rage and hatred. It would be out of a desire for revenge.

The situation should be examined by an rational person who has no connection with the case. In nearly all of these situations there are psychological problems with the killer. There are completely irrational motives that we can never begin to understand.

It is my belief that nearly all serial killers and mass murderers are mentally disturbed in one way or another. I think it is simply unhuman to take pleasure in the murder of others, hence the mental problem. How can society seek to punish those who are mentally challenged and cannot tell the difference between right and wrong?

quote:
So I dont think you have any right to decide what these criminals get



She has the right to have an opinion.

Ok lets start from the begining...I dont think if you were in that position that your feelings on wanting a harsh punishment are irrational, how is that so? It's not a irrational thought to want to have someone punished equally to what they did to you, your family, friends, community, and most of all the victum. Im not saying lets kill everyone who commits a damn crime, i'm saying in these extreme cases, it should def. be a relevent option.

Ok secondly, are you one of thoes people who stand for pulling the insanity card all the time? Listen, being f*cked up in the head (excuse my french, but thats what it is) is no excuse to kill someone, especially in the ways some of these victums are killed. Your theory on "them" not knowing what is right and wrong is just a poor justification. i just watched a special the other night. This serial killer in Ohio, in his 20's, he graduated from the Ivy league, umm Cornell University. Smart, smart guy...killed 8 girls all-together. Prodomonently(spelling, i know) young teens 14-18. He just got these urges to do what he did, they didn't do anything to him, he didnt know any of them, infact all the woman he did know he did not harm. He raped 2 woman in College that the authorities never found out about. And then after college, successful in the realworld, he was drving one day, saw a girl, i think she was 16 walking to her boyfriends house, and he pulled over, grabbed her, dragged her into the woods, raped her, and then flipped her over on her tummy, and strangled her to death.

Shit 24's on, I'll finish in a little sorry!

I also am a very agrressive person but I play video games and am on an airsoft team I don't murder people for thrills

That would bring up th whole nature vs. nuture debate. Because maybe you're not inherently "evil", but you pick up horrible attributes from your parents.

Proving someone insane isn't the easy process you believe it to be. There are several psychoanalyses you have to go through before you are declared (legally) or criminally insane.

Those who are mentally unstable and commit crimes..well, it would be very hard to convict them. Those who plead insanity *after* the fact, (such as that woman) are using hindsight cop-outs. That's an unfair abuse of our legal system.

Having aggressive genes does NOT make you a killer. I'm an aggressive person, but I don't go out and murder people. Everyone can have the impulse, those who choose to act upon them must face the consequences.

But can't anyone be deemed a threat to society. Some people just happen to have more aggressive genes than others. Should infants be screened for these tendacies at birth? And then put down if they exhibit potential for such tendacies?

no I belive that anything that proves unbalaced and dangerous to his fellow man should be eliminated as a threat to his fellow man regardless of his condition

quote:

you don't take care of monsters you put them down and out of their misery

I always believe that there is hope that the "monsters" will improve. You sound a whole lot like a social darwinist to me. Should we execute all of the physically and mentally disabled people in society, as well?

you don't take care of monsters you put them down and out of their misery

quote:

as it is for many insane people

They won't die as a result of their insanity.

quote:

and as such should not be treated as human. It is those emotions and feeling that make us human. these are monsters not rational human beings like you and me

Right. They should be removed from society and put in an institution.

quote:

He is usually beyond treatment. He would die anyway.

as it is for many insane people

quote:

I said they lack human-like emotion and feelings.

and as such should not be treated as human. It is those emotions and feeling that make us human. these are monsters not rational human beings like you and me

quote:

Why do you keep talking about the insane as if they are mentally retarded? They understand what they are doing and they do it anyways.

Okay...they may understand what they are doing, but they have some sort of mental block that causes them to kill in such a way. People like that cannot be held responsible for their actions. I never said that serial killers are unintelligent. I said they lack human-like emotion and feelings.

quote:

that's complete and utter inhumanity

Which I believe to be the result of some type of insanity.

quote:

Why is the dog with rabies killed for having a diease?

He is usually beyond treatment. He would die anyway.

Or insitutionalized. With therapy they can imporve. Why should the insane be executed for committing a crime that they cannot understand?[/QUOTE]

Why do you keep talking about the insane as if they are mentally retarded? They understand what they are doing and they do it anyways. Some have motives for why they do it, some dont. But they all know exactly what they are doing when they take a person's life... and most do it again. These people may have something wrong mentally, but not at all intelligence. As a matter of fact, a lot of serial killers have been very intelligent: Ed Gein for instance, and Ted Bundy. That comment made me think that you think of them as little children who dont really understand anything yet... im sure that they would be quite offended by that...