I know there's a discussion going on right now about how religion influences people and their decisions but what I want to know is do you think democracy is best served by strict separation of church and state? This was a debate topic I had to write about and I know it's being debated millions of times before but I'm interested to see what everybody thinks.

yeah, but your topic didn't prove a good example, taht was my point.

quote:

Originally posted by Maxno:
Alright fine punkz, but that's not a good example of religion and the state not mixing. In the middle ages, the church often was the "state", just as corrupt as kingdoms etc. A better example might be the Thirty Years war, or even the Ottoman Empire, whcih was decentralized due to the fact taht it was sub divided into administrations of religious communities, whcih had no specific boundaries, and often overlapped with others or were split between different territories of the empire.

i'm not very familiar with those topics, so i chose a topic i was familiar with.

Alright fine punkz, but that's not a good example of religion and the state not mixing. In the middle ages, the church often was the "state", just as corrupt as kingdoms etc. A better example might be the Thirty Years war, or even the Ottoman Empire, whcih was decentralized due to the fact taht it was sub divided into administrations of religious communities, whcih had no specific boundaries, and often overlapped with others or were split between different territories of the empire.

I don't believe that this example has been used.

Arguing for seperation, look at the Inquistion.

see? i did know what i was talking about.

i am saying that not everyone believes in the same religion, everyone has different beliefs. that is why we NEED separation of chruch and state, so all the different religions in this country don't kill each other.

he's talking bout the Bishoprics that filled the power vacuum caused after the Tenth Legion left Britannia in 450 AD. They left the natie romano-celts with two things: an ecellent system of roads and christianity. Every county and major town (such as Londinium, London, or Lugnum, York) became the seat of a bishop. After the willy-nilly conquest of the Britiannia by the jutes, angles, and saxons, and their subsequent conversion, bishops were no longer secular lords, but large amounts of secular territory were aloted to the monastaries and convents by lords, Lady Godiva being one of them. Often, during periods of internal strife, such as that following the Matilda-Steven slug fest, the monastaries would raise armies and capture towns, villages, forests, and trade routes to keep the monastary in a constant state of wealth. This was much more common in continental Europe, though, where the power of a biship remained higher than a secular lord. In France, during the 1300's a Bishop laid seige to the town of Troyes, the seat of another bishop, because he refused to submit large payments to a local abby. The city was relieved by yet another bishop, who had allied himself with Thaubuit the Great, Duke of Champagne. Then another time, this same abby sent an army against the pope because he infringed upon the rights of this establishment.

Yeah, what you've said about England is sooo wrong taht even the bushies don't know what you're saying....

"you can;t have some priest telling muslims what to do, or some old jewish guy trying to tell the catholics what to. if that comes to be, then we'll all kill each other."

what are you saying punkz?

?????

Punkz...you really are an idiot.

Please know what you're talking about before you say something...

look, back in england, the catholic church like, took over. every priest or bird or whatever they're called got a bunch of land to watch. eventually, all the priests or whatever they were called got obsseessed with having more land. basically, the chruch became corrupt. which is why we need separation of chruch and state. you can;t have some priest telling muslims what to do, or some old jewish guy trying to tell the catholics what to. if that comes to be, then we'll all kill each other.

quote:

Originally posted by northstar316:

quote:

Just because I know what I believe in, doesnt mean I wont be a scientist or a doctor, you have no right saying that. And how do you know more about my religion than I do? Do you go to a Christian church every Sunday and Wednesday, where you hear about Gods miracles, through Jesus and himself? I dont think so...so yes, thats great if all atheists have actually studied everything about the Christian religion (which I dont think anybody has)(maybe we could lead more non-believers to Christ) but I seriously doubt that all athesists have studied everything about the Christian religion.

You will be shocked and horrified the first time you look at the bone section of the anatomy books. And they also don't blur out the sexual organs. que criminal!

excuse me?

quote:

Just because I know what I believe in, doesnt mean I wont be a scientist or a doctor, you have no right saying that. And how do you know more about my religion than I do? Do you go to a Christian church every Sunday and Wednesday, where you hear about Gods miracles, through Jesus and himself? I dont think so...so yes, thats great if all atheists have actually studied everything about the Christian religion (which I dont think anybody has)(maybe we could lead more non-believers to Christ) but I seriously doubt that all athesists have studied everything about the Christian religion.

You will be shocked and horrified the first time you look at the bone section of the anatomy books. And they also don't blur out the sexual organs. que criminal!

quote:

Originally posted by ilovebush:
you tried to establish it but I dont think you changed anybodys opinion.

so you like monarchy because thats what happens when you dont have seperation of church and state.

you tried to establish it but I dont think you changed anybodys opinion.

Obviously not...

Haven't we established seperation of church and state is good...

quote:

Originally posted by punkz13:
as long as bush is in office, there is no separation of church and state

thankfully.