i mean, he's helping a country no one else would help, he's keeping good morals w/ the marriage act, i mean, WHAT ELSE TO U DEMOCRATS WANT?!?!? just b/c ur guys isn't in the white house doesn't mean u got to go off on him. we should support our leaders. they have a hard job whether u think so or not. o, one more thing. as for the information the government so called "had/received", if it's a mess up, is it really Bush's falt? i mean, if it had got to him, don't u think he would have acted on it? come on. u think he wouldn't have taken the precautions so that thousands wouldn't have died in 9/11? i just don't understand yall, dissin him on his morals. he is jsut following the morals of our founding fathers. anyway, if u don't like the job he's doing, instead of dissing on him, U CAN LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND FIND A BETTER ONE! woa, got a little carried away, but u get the point. he's only trying to help, and he's doing the best he can. try supporting him. it can't hurt.(and don't u dare say it can).

Lol, good one cnfire. That's hilarious. If only I could actually read what you wrote, then I'd get the joke completely. But I think I get the gist lol.

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ok the ww2 topic is over now

Cool. If you would like to talk more about it I would love to. Like I said before, I am interested in the subject. This is probably not the right board for that though.

meh. oh well i guess i just read it wrong. ok the ww2 topic is over now

I don't understand what you are asking. I agreed with you.

ok sorry ace. but you have yet to supply me with an actual argument as to how that was the thing that we contributed. so quit being a smart ass and start talking all this game that you apparently have about WW2

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you mean to tell me that the only way we were helpful was supplying fresh troops? what about supplies, ships, food, the lend-lease act?

*cough*

quote:

Originally posted by LoveTheRainbow:
We had fresh soldiers, and supplies.

*cough*

about your friend, after a 4 year enlistment he is obligated for 4 years inactive reserve which means that at any time he can get called back into active duty. this is one of those events where hes going to have to fufil that. and while the theory of going in to iraq undetected to catch saddaam with his pants down is good on paper, we still have to deal with the stupidity of the UN and crap like that. if it was pre-ww2 then yeah we would have just gone in, taken him out and no one would have been the wiser. in all reality the UN is what really f'ed things up when it came to WMDs because they let them know that there is an inspection which gives them plenty of time to do what they need to do.

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I said that was the only reason why we were helpful.
you mean to tell me that the only way we were helpful was supplying fresh troops? what about supplies, ships, food, the lend-lease act? what about us diverting the nazis from russia allowing russians to pursue a faster route to berlin for an attack. it almost sounds like your saying that the US put forth minimal resources into the war.

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no one forced your friend to be in the army. and im sorry that he might have to stay but guess what, hes obligated to it. when he swore into service he knew what he was getting into

When he was enlisted, few people were paying any mind to Iraq or Afghanistan. He thought he was getting into the usual stint in the Army. What is it, three or four years? I don't quite recall. Anyways, like I said, he is slated to get out quite soon. But if Bush goes forward with his plan to increase troops, he'll be put in for another year. A year he didn't know he was getting into.

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yeah im well aware that you say you would "verify information", and how exactly would you, as president do that?

I would start with trusting more than a mere handful of people to make decisions for me. And yes, I know Saddam could have moved the WMDs, but shouldn't we have foreseen that? I mean, if you know the police are coming to search your house for weed, wouldn't you bury it in your back yard or throw it over your neighbor's fence? If we had really wanted to catch Saddam with his pants down, so to speak, we wouldn't have announced to the whole world that we were coming to get him, thus giving him the time needed to ditch any incriminating evidence. Which, in the end, didn't matter anyways since we hung him for something else entirely. That is, after we tore up the whole country and pissed off the rest of the world.

It's still a wild goose hunt if you never find what you're looking for, even if it did exist in the first place.

As much as it pains me to do this I will apoligize. I read your post wrong. However,

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but it was only our fresh troops right?.

I never said that. I said that was the only reason why we were helpful. I am fully aware of all the other happenings and their affects on the outcome of WWII

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it will only hurt your feelings.

I don't think it is possible for you to hurt my feelings. I don't know you.

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and he would have very well succeeded hadnt been for us combining our efforts with england and the others

so inother words, it wasnt just us....like i said. it was a combined force. if germany had won the battle of britain that would have given him more time to gather an even stronger force to focus on russia, and we would have lost a valuable ally. and D-day and El Alamein wouldnt have happened. The breaking of the Code for the enigma (credit to the british) is also a huge turning point, but it was only our fresh troops right?. please dont try and school me on this subject, it will only hurt your feelings. but if you would like to continue this discusssion, please feel free

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.....why is it disgusting that this country was founded because of war?

War is disgusting. Killing is disgusting. Thinking war solves anything is just plain stupidity.

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and yes we would probably be speaking german because back in WW2 someone named Adolf Hitler was planning world domination.

Okay smart ass. I know about WWII. It's a fascinating subject that I actually know quite a lot about.

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and he would have very well succeeded hadnt been for us combining our efforts with england and the others. no other country could have fought off the attack and power that the nazis had hence we would probably be speaking german if it wasnt for war.

Okay I hate when people think this. Yes we helped cause an end but it was not because we were so great. We came in at a point in the war where everyone was exhausted. We had fresh soldiers, and supplies. Its like getting first place in a race when you started 10 miles in front of everyone else.

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youthvoice, i really do feel for your brother and your family. he is one of the lucky ones that survived such an event. i have lost many a friend over in iraq/afghanistan and while it saddens me at the same time no one forced them or your brother to sign that contract. especially with him being so young he should have had a pretty good clue that he was going to be going overseas so hopefully he doesnt hate bush for him being there.

I am sorry to hear about you loosing friends and loved ones, the same thing has happened to my brother. It is truly sad. I did not say that he was forced in to signing the contract. What I am trying to get at is for you to see that we are in fact affected by the decisions that President Bush makes. Now I personally support the troops. I support them because they are serving this country and where ever they are told to go that's what they'll do. What I don't support is the poor decisions that President Bush has made. Bush is a liar and I don't trust nor like liars.

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meagan. good job. coast guard aux? well at least its something. to be honest dont bother wasting your time with jag, its really not worth the time and money. yes gas prices went up. ok. shit happens does it not? but unemployent is at a 5 year low. the military gets a raise. saddam is dead. and me talking about this is not me being arrogant and im sorry if it seems that way. i just wish people would take a step back and see the real world for a change.

I don't recall saying anything about gas prices. I'm the one who lives in metro Detroit and has been paying under $2 per gallon...I'm pretty happy with gas prices at the moment. Also, I'm more than capable of recognizing the limitations of the Presidential office. I'm not one of those people who blames the world's problems on the President...I am however, one of those people who recognizes when certain plans contradict common sense, and who can see when the President seems to be going against what his advisors and senior staff members would recommend. THAT is where my issues with our President lie.

youthvoice, i really do feel for your brother and your family. he is one of the lucky ones that survived such an event. i have lost many a friend over in iraq/afghanistan and while it saddens me at the same time no one forced them or your brother to sign that contract. especially with him being so young he should have had a pretty good clue that he was going to be going overseas so hopefully he doesnt hate bush for him being there.

clpo13, like i said to youthvoice, no one forced your friend to be in the army. and im sorry that he might have to stay but guess what, hes obligated to it. when he swore into service he knew what he was getting into so i really have no sympathy for him. sorry. yeah im well aware that you say you would "verify information", and how exactly would you, as president do that? im pretty sure someone just didnt say to him "oh and by the way iraq has WMD's, just thought you would like to know" im sure they presented him with "facts" if you will. and is there any chance in the world that saddam had them.....moved?

meagan. good job. coast guard aux? well at least its something. to be honest dont bother wasting your time with jag, its really not worth the time and money. yes gas prices went up. ok. shit happens does it not? but unemployent is at a 5 year low. the military gets a raise. saddam is dead. and me talking about this is not me being arrogant and im sorry if it seems that way. i just wish people would take a step back and see the real world for a change.

lovetherainbow.....why is it disgusting that this country was founded because of war? do you think that england would just give us freedom. people are not nice, its a cold hard fact of life. as much as i would love to have world peace and end hunger i am also aware that it will probably never happen in my lifetime. people are too greedy. and yes we would probably be speaking german because back in WW2 someone named Adolf Hitler was planning world domination. and he would have very well succeeded hadnt been for us combining our efforts with england and the others. no other country could have fought off the attack and power that the nazis had hence we would probably be speaking german if it wasnt for war.

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they are probably the same people that give me shit for being in the military cause they dont have the guts to defend their own freedom, so let others die for it right?

I was one of those kids who was college bound since kindergarten, so joining the military wasn't even an option for me upon completion of high school. Even now, I'm still mildly considering it for after law school as a JAG. Meanwhile, I'm a member of the US Coast Guard Auxiliary...just because I want to be able to give back somehow, being a volunteer lifesaver seemed like a pretty good way. Don't make generalizations.

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no i havent read his book, i dont need to. i can write whatever i want to in a book, claim it to be fact and people would believe it right?

You are absolutely right about this being the case about many books. However, this particular book has been endorsed by people all over the political spectrum. Also, the person who recommended it to me (air force, in case that matters to you) fact checked the text before I read it. Therefore, it's legit and a very interesting read. It's one of the most non-partisan books I've read in awhile, I really do recommend it.

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i really believe that very very few of you out there who complain about what the president is doing would be able to do a better job than he is.

You know what? For a long time, I held my tongue, because I disliked what was going on, but I couldn't think of anything better. Now however, with the new plan Bush is laying out, I have heard many far better suggestions as to what we can do next...and therefore, I feel I am allowed to be critical of the choices currently being made.

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thanks to the almighty power of NCLB, to study the "skills" needed for standardized tests because our school has not passed the absurd NCLB standards for the past two or three years due to the high percentage of non-English speaking migrant students who are unable to take the English-only test

I'd just like to add that my school probably has the most percentage of special education students in my district, and is also very economically and racially diverse. Because of this, and students who aren't that fluent in English for whatever reason, we failed a lot too. These tests don't take those factors into consideration, nor does NCLB.

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"well how does he effect you?"

So it seems that you assume no one in this site is affected by President Bush, a man who has power over OUR government. Hm, how does the decisions of President Bush affect my life? Well let's see. I was in school one day and when I come home and open my door I find my mom crying in the sofa, she is inconsolable. My father is crying also, and trust me, I had never seen my father cry in my life. So I asked what happened? And you want to know what happened? My brother, only nineteen years old has been shot in the face by a sniper in Iraq. They don't think that he is going to make it. They tell us to be prepared for anything and that my parents might need to fly to Germany, to see him, perhaps for the last time. Thankfully, my brother survived, but everyone except for him and another soldier who was badly burned survived from his entire group. Now, you say that you have been in the Middle East yourself and that you are in the military, so I would think that you would understand what I'm talking about. But of course that might not be enough for me to say that I am directly affected by his decision to invade Iraq, no. I probably should just shut about a war that makes no sense and ask no questions about the inconsistencies of the information that is available to the public. Perhaps I should not be upset that my brother almost died for a war that I still don't understand and for which President Bush has still not shown his true motives for. I should probably be okay that thousands of young man like yourself are being sent off to fight a war that makes no sense and for which there is really no victory in sight. I should be okay that my brother is only here for a couple of days and is leaving back to Iraq again in a couple of more days. I should understand that if he wasn't to come back I should be just fine with it and congratulate President Bush for his wise decision to invade in the first place. By the way, in case you don't get it, I'm being sarcastic here.



It truly makes no sense to me why you would come in to this site and assume that the decisions of someone who is supposed to be the leader, will not affect the people that he leads. It makes no sense whatsoever. What gives you the right to come here and insult people? You are no better than anyone else. So I will ask you to please refrain yourself from doing so.

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im sure each and everyone of you would have invaded iraq if your best friends and parents were saying "there are weapons of mass destruction and they will use them on the USA".

Yeah, and I'm sure you'd jump off a bridge if only your "best friends" ask you to, right?

I can't believe I didn't notice a troll! Gah, all my snappy answers have already been used!

Oh well. It's always fun to see how annoyed I can get the troll.

quote:

how many of you are actually, and i mean acutally effected by president bush?

Firstly, I have a close friend who is on the verge of being forced to stay in the Army for another year (and re-deployed to Iraq, no less!) due to Bush's "surge" strategy. He is supposed to be discharged in a matter of months.

Second, I went to a public high school. Where I was forced, thanks to the almighty power of NCLB, to study the "skills" needed for standardized tests because our school has not passed the absurd NCLB standards for the past two or three years due to the high percentage of non-English speaking migrant students who are unable to take the English-only test (of course, I just want to know why they don't learn English, but oh well). How does (or rather, did, considering I graduated last year) this affect me? When a school is "failing" according to NCLB, they get reduced funding. Reduced funding means cuts in certain "unnecessary" programs, such as the fine arts, of which I am an avid supporter. Of course, that's not even going into the stupidity of reducing funding to schools that really need more of it. NCLB is a prime example of a catch-22. If you aren't already succeeding, you never will. That's enough to piss off anyone who's set foot in a public school any time since 2001.

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im sure each and everyone of you would have invaded iraq if your best friends and parents were saying "there are weapons of mass destruction and they will use them on the USA".

Um, no. Why? Because I don't believe everything I'm told. I verify information before I act on it. Besides, weren't you just telling us not to believe everything our "liberal" parents tell us?

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just because we invaded iraq, did that affect your jobs? did president bush bomb your house or something? did you get shot at by people because of president bush?

Gas prices went up. Brothers, fathers, and husbands were killed. The government reduced our freedoms (Patriot Act, anyone?). I bet I could find more personal effects. Those are just the first ones that came off the top of my mind. And they're all a direct result of Bush's (and Congress's) actions in invading Iraq and Afghanistan.

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they are probably the same people that give me shit for being in the military cause they dont have the guts to defend their own freedom,

To paraphrase Sen. Kerry, perhaps we're just too intelligent.

Ah, low blow. To Kerry and the Armed Forces. Anyways, why did I not join the military? Because I didn't want to die in a sandbox. If I had joined the military when I graduated, I would have been shipped off to Iraq or Afghanistan right after basic training. And I probably would have been killed by a sniper or an IED. I think my life is worth too much to end in a meaningless death at 18. Had we not been embroiled in a pointless war that even has the National Guard and Reserves being shipped overseas, I would have considered the Armed Forces more seriously. But my chances of surviving to do what I want to do would have been close to zero if I had joined after graduation.

I have nothing but respect for the men and women in uniform (even if I take potshots at the annoying and arrogant ones, like you). But that's not for me. I serve my country in other ways, and leave the fighting and dying for those who can handle that life.