Correct, but isn't the question null-void if true communism cannot be achieved then?

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Yet, isn't corrupt communism part of communism as a whole?

no... they are different.

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, communism rarely work out they way it is supposed to.

Communism never works the way it is supposed to.

Corrupt communism (dictatorship mascarading as communism)=bad

communism= not bad

Yes we are talking about whether or not commuinism is bad. Yet, isn't corrupt communism part of communism as a whole?

The point that I was trying to reaffirm was that, while good in thought, communism rarely work out they way it is supposed to.

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I was under the assumption that true communism, though a good thought/plan, typically becomes a dictatorship.

No. Communism in the form we know it happens only when a dictator perverts the ideology behind communism.

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It also destroys any sense of national heritage previous to the communist government

No. It destroys the class system and with that the tradition of exploiting the underprivilaged.

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Yes, I was saying to refer to those books to get a better understanding of corrupt communistic states.(

So corrupt communistic states are bad... I belive the question was about communism not the corruption of it.

Yes, I was saying to refer to those books to get a better understanding of corrupt communistic states.(Considering that most, if not all, communist states either start or become corrupt.) Seeing as Orwell, or Blair if you prefer, was a socialist pointing out the flaws of "his own communist ideals", one would believe he would be a good source to turn to.

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Read Animal Farm, Anthem, or 1984 it gives you an insight on such things...

Eric Arthur Blair, better known as George Orwell, was an antistalinist socialist. People pointing to his work when they attack socialism is stupid. He wrote those books as a criticism of the corruption of his own communist ideals by the soviet union and stalinism.

It's bad because it is. Don't question the statements of your betters.

I'm only kidding. Or am I?

ah ok

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Originally posted by CuervoQuixotic:

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It also destroys any sense of national heritage previous to the communist government and any religions.I guess that would make people "worship" communism.

Not necessarily. Most dictatorship/communistic countries took entire pride of their heritage. Hitler believed that Germans were the greatest, and look at the chinese. They essentially destoyed things because they represented other people other than their own.

With religion yes most religions are destroyed, yet, typically, the leader(s) have a solitary religion to back them up.

I was speaking of the more idealistic form of communism that its founders envisioned.

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It also destroys any sense of national heritage previous to the communist government and any religions.I guess that would make people "worship" communism.

Not necessarily. Most dictatorship/communistic countries took entire pride of their heritage. Hitler believed that Germans were the greatest, and look at the chinese. They essentially destoyed things because they represented other people other than their own.

With religion yes most religions are destroyed, yet, typically, the leader(s) have a solitary religion to back them up.

It also destroys any sense of national heritage previous to the communist government and any religions.I guess that would make people "worship" communism.

It looks great on paper, but it never works. Humanity is to selfish for it to really work and there will always be abusers of the system.

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That is not an accurate picture of true communism. Thats a dictatorship mascarading as communism...

Point taken. I was under the assumption that true communism, though a good thought/plan, typically becomes a dictatorship.

Communism, the way Karl Marx wrote it, is not bad, it would be very effective, but Stalin twisted it and made it into a bad thing.

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Read Animal Farm, Anthem, or 1984 it gives you an insight on such things....

That is not an accurate picture of true communism. Thats a dictatorship mascarading as communism...

Read Animal Farm, Anthem, or 1984 it gives you an insight on such things....

Also, it scares me how close we are to living under Big Brother.....
but thats another story

~Cuervo

Old kibbutzes used communism and they worked/work fine. When you go on a larger scale of a country, though, not the entire population wants to turn to communism. Leaders turn to violence and oppression to get what they want.

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Originally posted by speed:

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It's made up by dreamers who understand the world even less than I do.

After reading that I'm quite sure I understand the world better than you do.

It's possible.

My history teach told us that since Western society is based on owning things (to be a citizen you had to own property in certain European countries), then such things like communism aren't really appreciated.

As for me, it's an extreme, and extremes tend not to last long.
Have to find a balance between communism ideals (well, sharing things and promoting society) and capitalist ideals (owning things and treating yourself).

Communism as an Ideal is the perfect form of living. But the problem comes in putting it to practice. The strong will always take advantage of the weak, and eventually you will see a rise of leadership that will use the socialist ideology for its own purposes. It inevitably leads to a Dictatorship in name or in deed. Not to mention an almost immediate emergence of a caste system, which I think we can all agree is the basis of most revolutions.

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the western world is also portraying communism badly for political reasons.

True, most people don't seem to realize that your teachers aren't about to tell you anything good about socialism in any of it's forms. Most people hate socialism without true fundament or understanding of it's nature based simply on the propaganda they swallow blindly.

No form of western media -notice the educational system is part of the media as much as that may seem bizarre- is going to portray socialism with objectivity.

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It's made up by dreamers who understand the world even less than I do.

After reading that I'm quite sure I understand the world better than you do.