Living in the state that MLK is buried in. I get allot of "civil rights leaders" on my local news singing the praises of affirmative action, and joyfully calling any of it's opposers "racist/bigots".

But is favoritism to one race promoting the Equality of all races?

Hate crimes are another big issue, and a savage hypocrisy. The government again separates the races, in the name of uniting the races. If someone commits a crime against a black man because he is black, why should that crime be any different then a man who commits a crime against another man for, say, sleeping with his wife? Are they both not out of "hate"?

Rac`ism-
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

It seems to me that if anyone says "My race should be considered for jobs over other races." that they are in fact advocating racism.

"Let men not ask what the law requires, but give whatever freedom demands."
-Jefferson Davis

Anyone here actually support either of these? if so why?

there are sweatshops all over south-eastern asia. All of the Gap companies' (i.e. Gap, Gap Kids, Baby Gap, Bannana Republic, and Old Navy) clothes are produced in sweatshops. When you're being told what to do by someone who is carrying a stick with a peice of leather with a thumbtack in it tells you what to do, you don't think about the words "equal opportunity employers." you don't care if the white guy next to you is getting more than the black man on the other side. The words "Affirmative Action" means that you'll be sure to get just as much as anyone else. In Saipan (a US territory in Southern Asia) Abercrombie and Fitch's clothes are made in sweatshops. The workers' ages range from 6 years old to 86 years old. the places where they sleep are infested with rats and other pests, the plubing doesn't work, and the water from the well is contaminated. In Charlottesville, Virginia, the Tyson Chicken corporation houses migrant farm workers. the reason why their housing is up on the 3rd floor, 25 some feet from the ground, and is not adjacent to any type of fire escape, is so that no one can escape. should they escape, the illegal immagrants would be found, and the company would be destroyed completely.
my point is this: be thankful for what you have and for what you're parents get paid. it could always be worse. my family is irish, and i'm not about to say that i, or anyone in my family has felt the pain of being a slave. But neither does anyone else in this generation, or or your parents'. or your grandparents'. quit crying for a little extra push. it won't help. do you see me asking for reparations because the store windows in new york said for over 50 years: "Irish need not apply?"
If a company doesn't want to hire you or let you into their quarters, it's their buisness if they don't. not yours or the government's. when your basic rights are being denied (voting, drinking from the same water fountain, or being tried for a crime) then that's when it's time to take action. i think people should be paid equal amounts for equal amounts of work, regardless of race. But you don't have to make it your own revolution. MLK's philosophies have come a long way, and it would be a crying shame to see them wasted on the wrong purposes.

Ah yes, the theory of "anyone can get ahead if they just TRY HARD ENOUGH! YAAAY!"

Saying that affirmative action is good because it "rights the wrongs" that whites did to blacks hundreds of years ago is ridiculous.

Blacks aren't the only ones who have been discriminated against. What about the Japanese that were put in concentration camps during WWII? They lost all of their money and were discriminated against incredibly... but do you see any affirmative action for them? Do you see them whining for free handouts? And this was a lot less time ago than when there was slavery; the people who this happened to are still alive today!

And what about the Irish who came here? And the Chinese migrant workers who couldn't go to college? These people don't get affirmative action.

My own grandmother couldn't get any jobs or get into college because she was Jewish! I'm not getting any affirmative action.

All of those people that i have just mentioned worked hard and got back their money and got to college WITHOUT free handouts. Minorities today should be able to do the same.

Affirmative action has been subject to change in the past few years. Someone who needs their company to look good, especialy for a new publicity stunt. to look good, the company (take your pick; Pepsi, Coke, McDonald's, Burger King, anyone) has to look like they are fair, just and reasonable. And what better way to make something look more just than to say "we hire jut as many black as white!"
affirmative action is nothing more than the end-result of some faded activist who thought they had a voice, but wound up getting screwed by the government anyway. Since the 1970's, affirmative action has become nothing more than free publicity.
i'm not going to say it hasn't helped the average black/hispanic/jewish/middle-eastern demographic, but just consider that companies would have just come accross it sooner or later, even if the government hadn't.
as for the hate crimes resulting from affirmative action, they aren't worth paying much attention to. Yes it is tragic that someone is beaten or killed because of their race, but the people committing these crimes have absolutely no idea of right or wrong. consider this: they are mean insufficient ignorant bullies who pose no more threat than a bb gun against an panzer tank. there isn't going to ever be a race war, because the white sup[remicist facists would lose, because thir numbers are so small.

I totally agree that affirmative action actually seperates blacks and whites instead of striving for equality. However, on your other topic, committing a crime against a man because he is black is totally different than committing a crime against a man who has slept with his wife. The black man has done nothing, the other guy is a b*****d. Hatred for no reason has to be considered differently than if the person has actually been wronged by someone else to begin with.

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African descendents in America, as a group were started in a position of absolute poverty

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Actually, the first Africans in America were indentured servants and were free about 75 years before the first slave ship came.

Secondly, black people called themselves Negro too, not just white people used the term. And most people who wanted to say n*gger said it in public too.

CS, by your own logic then, affirmative action should be on the basis of economic status, not race. By the way, your post does not begin to refute my earlier statements.

"...she said Hispanics and whites 'all look alike to me'."

That sound's like something that Dave Chapelle once said

Check out what this Black female dog Congresswoman from Florida said about "White men"...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,112651,00.html

I'll cut & paste a few snippets from the report:

"...she said Hispanics and whites 'all look alike to me'."

"...She said Republican leaders were "racist" in their policies toward the Caribbean nation, which is almost entirely black, and called the president's representatives "a bunch of white men."

Now, if this interesting U.S. Congresswoman had been White, think of the leftist media attacks by CBS, NBC, CBS, and CNN which would have demanded an immediate resignation. As a reminder, I give you the Trent Lott "lynching" by the news media last year.

Well, in about 50 years or less, the White folks in North America will be outnumbered anyway. Maybe they can then be experts in victimology, too!

I use Negro because that's what you're thinking, That's what your predecessors said when they were in public and couldn't say ******.

You want your points disproved?

Sociology. Really, it's an entire field of study. What does it say?

You lose.

African descendents in America, as a group were started in a position of absolute poverty, opressed for centuries, which not only put them at a huge economic disadvantage, but caused psychological damage that can still remain today. Even when technically released into the wonderful American free market, Blacks were at a disadvantage.
If you have less money, you are not nearly as able to advance in economic or social status.
Yes, there are exceptions, but they are certainly not the rule. This applies to poor whites, poor hispanics, and poor blacks. The children of parents of a socioeconomic level tend to stay in that same socioeconomic level. It's true of poor, rich, and middle. You can deny it, but that doesn't make it false.

Not only were blacks afflicited by this basic socioeconomic truth, they were opressed for over a century after legally obtaining freedom, and the freedom to operate in the open market. So, althought poor whites are also afflicted by their own social status, they have not been crushed by these two forces, poverty and rascism.

Does Affirmative Action run exactly as it perhaps should? Could it stand a few changes? Of course?

Does that not make you an ignorant bigot? No.

Affirmative Action is racist and hateful in itself. The most qualified person should get the job, period.

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Every single one of you overblows Affirmative Action by a huge amount. None of you really argue about Affirmative Action at all, you argue about giving the Negros all of our education and jobs, which Affirmative Action is not. I'm not a huge fan of Affirmative Action, but you're ridiculous.

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Every single one of us? Explain how I overblew affirmative action by any amount, and where I argued that "negros" are taking all of our education and all of our jobs. You have yet to respond intelligibly to the points I've made.

One, I think you just said Negroes. My grandma doesn't even say that anymore. Two, there were quotas put in place by affirmative action that does give away jobs/education to certain people no matter if they are qualified or not. I think nothing is fair that gives one race an advantage over another and that is what affirmative action does. Maybe it was needed at one point but it has gotten out of hand. The best person for the job/whatever should always get it.

Every single one of you overblows Affirmative Action by a huge amount. None of you really argue about Affirmative Action at all, you argue about giving the Negros all of our education and jobs, which Affirmative Action is not. I'm not a huge fan of Affirmative Action, but you're ridiculous.

Yeah, most poor people get Welfare. Should we give them our jobs too? Just because some people work hard to get their money/status in life doesn't mean their children should be punished by not getting the rights/jobs/into the colleges they deserve.

"Ideally, affirmative action would be for ALL the poor, but we don't live in an ideal country."

Umm...yeah, I already pointed that out.

Whereas, you point out your rascism by going back to the "all black people join gangs" stereotype. Guess what? Gang members aren't going to be affected by Affirmative action!

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Do you seriously believe that class has absolutely nothing to do with how far someone can get in life?

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You think all whit people are born into money?

MY family struggles every day. Who is holding us back?

I didn't join any gangs. I didn't protest the rich for my short comings.

I just have to work for success, if it is just handed to me because everyone is tired of hearing me *****, this it really isn't success is it?
Not everyone was born into money, some where along the way someone has to have earned it from nothing.

My family is poor, we might lose our house because we can't make the Payments. I have to work 38 hours a week at minimum wage to help keep us fed.

I don't get angry at rich people. I admire them.
I get out to do my best, that my family might not have to do like I do.

I don't join gangs. Sell drugs, knock off liquor stores.

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Discrimination: (n)

Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners.

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Paint it any color you like, Smurf. It's still racial discrimination.

And Korith completely proves my point.

Do you seriously believe that class has absolutely nothing to do with how far someone can get in life? Do you think every new baby starts with a completely blank slate?