liberals say theyre pro choice but theyre not. if you think about it, theyre pro-abortion. they preach about how the women's sovereignty over her own body but they dont care about the life of the unborn child. but what about other walks of life? then its different.
when it comes to women's freedom to choose better safer schools for their children, many of whom are trapped in run down dumps, they're anti choice. the left opposes tax credits, vouchers, k-12 educational savings account, and most other forms of parental choice in education.
when women are terrorized by criminals the left doesnt support a woman's "freedom to choose" to buy a hand gun and carry it in her purse or under her jacket sould she need it to defend her children or herself. the left doesnt think that women has the capacity to to make right choices about her personal security. the Left doesnt believe in hard working people chosing their own personal retirement account withij the conctext of Social Securit, with the potential of yielding tow or thee times the earining in the social seciurity system, which gives them less than 2 percent return on their money. the result: large numbers of seniors are living on the brink of poverty thats only going to get worse as the baby boomers age. but the left doesnt think that people have the intelligence to make right choices about their own financial security.
so you see liberals may giving heart breaking speeches about how they are so pro choice, they really arent. the left thinks it can run your life better than you can.
check out web sites of planned parenthood and other radical pro abortion groups and see if "choice" is really what they are promoting.

Oh wolfie, you have quite a unique talent. Anytime you post something really short, I realize that I could write an entire essay filled with facts, historical events, etc. refuting almost every sentence you say. Some of which is opinionated, but most of it is just factually wrong, something even many democrats would say "whoa, wait a minute." Now I'm not going to on much of it since it is off topic. But here I go again:

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f you want abortion to be legal then there has to be a law that says if a man has a child he must take care of it or else spend the rest of his life in prison. (Yes I know about child-support laws but we need stricter ones).

It is so funny to be that you bring this up. You see, if a mother can prove paternity, then he HAS to help take care of the child. Laws enforce that. If he is not actively with the woman, than he must pay child support. He can't skip out like you're making it sound. To emphasize this, b/c a lot of people don't seem to know this: if a man impregnates a woman and she gives birth... he legally has to help take care of the child. So what?
Well what if the father didn't want to care for the child, but the mother does? He can't force her to have an abortion, so she gives birth and he has to pay for a child he didn't even want. Now if the reverse happens then the mother can abort the child and be free from all responsibilities. in short, the ways the law works now is that a woman can force a man into a responsibility he doesn't want, BUT the reverse is impossible. Laws in this particular case, are sexist AGAINST MEN. Most women don't know their rights and so they don't peruse it.

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t does not have basic rights until it is born. The three basic rights that people have are given to said person at birth, not at conception.

Not only do I personally find this untrue, but the law does as well.

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Generally, the whole 'potential' thing is a load of crap. etc

This argument makes no sense to me. It sounds like you are acknowledging that it is terminating potential, but are also justifying by saying it's not enough potential to matter. I would think that potential for any human life is worth saving. Don't you?

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It is not a mother's decision to decide whether or not her child should die, but it is her decision to be pregnant or not.

I agree with this, but have to ask what exactly do you think abortion is doing on a medical level, if not killing a child? An abortion is performed on a pregnant woman i.e. a woman with child i.e. there is life growing in her. She is already pregnant, the decision whether or not to be pregnant is made and done.

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You talk about them like their some evil disease-ridden thing, when really they are just people hoping to have a better life.

While I don't agree with everything that guy said, I really didn't get this impression of him. I got the idea he was saying Americans are in danger of being useless by not performing honest labor. (Not a viewpoint I agree, but different than the racist one you presented.)

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Liberals are the ones who fight for change. They were the ones who started the civil rights movement, and ended slavery.

If everyone just stayed 'conservative' and followed the constitution than black people would still be in slavery and have zero rights. Women wouldn't be allowed to vote.

Conservatives need to remember that the founding fathers wanted the constitution to change as the times changed, hence the nifty elastic clause of the constitution.

Most of that is simply untrue. You're mixing up all old political ideals into modern political ideals (like implying liberals are federalists and conservatives are anti-federalists) This is especially inaccurate as the South (who was for slavery) saw that they had a power not granted in the constitution to succeed from the union. Conservatives today are 1) never for slavery and 2) also are trying to add to the constitution, thus they aren't trying to get rid of the necessary and proper clause. There's more but I think you know what I'm saying.
That's all for now.

One problem I see with making abortion illegal is that the man is not penalized. If a woman has an abortion while it is illegal, she would go to jail but not the man, when it's usually his idea in the first place.

If she carries it to term and gives it up she lives with the trauma.

Now that we have the medical technology we could force the men, to carry the fetuses and hunt the women for child support.

The best thing we could do is prevent pregnancies by passing HR676 expanded medicaid coverage for all. Then everyone could afford birth control.

You talk of 'what the mother did' when really it takes two to make a baby. If you want abortion to be legal then there has to be a law that says if a man has a child he must take care of it or else spend the rest of his life in prison. (Yes I know about child-support laws but we need stricter ones).

It does not have basic rights until it is born. The three basic rights that people have are given to said person at birth, not at conception.

Generally, the whole 'potential' thing is a load of crap. Most women who get pregnant and have abortions are very young mothers, poor people or drug addicts, so if they did have the child it would most likely be raised in a bad environment. And thus the cycle continues.

It is not a mother's decision to decide whether or not her child should die, but it is her decision to be pregnant or not.

Lol, yes abortion kills the next generation. I don't know if you've heard, but we have serious over-population issues all over the place even with abortion being legal.

I'm sorry but illegals do not work at fast food places. In order to work there you need paperwork, which they do not have. Those 'illegals' you see at your McDonald's are American's just like you, you racist person, you.

Duh Americans think their better than everyone else. Look at how you talk about illegal immigrants. You talk about them like their some evil disease-ridden thing, when really they are just people hoping to have a better life.

Republicans and liberals are hypocrites. PEOPLE are hypocrites, welcome to life.

How do liberals claim to be pro-life? They are for freedom and equality for living, breathing people.

Who cares if they are socialists. When a government gets to large it kind of has to regulate things so everything doesn't go crazy. Look at our economy, if the government had taken a more socialist route years ago and had better laws for regulating business then this whole recession crap wouldn't even be happening.

You are a hypocrite (just like those dang liberals). You say that liberals take away rights when you are the one who says a woman's right to be pregnant is not hers.

Liberals are the ones who fight for change. They were the ones who started the civil rights movement, and ended slavery.

If everyone just stayed 'conservative' and followed the constitution than black people would still be in slavery and have zero rights. Women wouldn't be allowed to vote.

Conservatives need to remember that the founding fathers wanted the constitution to change as the times changed, hence the nifty elastic clause of the constitution.

I think that abortion is wrong! yes women have choice and that is to not engage in sexual activity before marriage. Why should the unborn child have to pay for what the mtoher did? The child is a human and therfore has basic rights, if not more then just the basic! Why should the mother decide if her baby should be murdrerd? I mean that uborn child has so much potential! Think of what if could have become! Do you really think that its fair for the mother to decide if her child should live or not.Also with us killing the next generation because of selfishness, what will happen in the future, will we have to depend on immigrants to do jobs for us? can't you see that already happening? Illegal aliens and immigrants are taking jobs americans could do if they would just stop being prideful and take the job at McDonalds!I think that Americans think that they're better then everybody else and can't ever imagine working at McDonalds because its beneath them!


Liberals confuse me. There hypocrites. A good example is that they claim that they're pro life, but they think the choice is up to the woman and that killing babies is alright. I think liberals are really socialists. I mean all they want is power. The seek to have control over everything. And I'm not trying to make anyone conservative but...... which would you rather choose? A. Liberal trying to control everything you do taking away the freedoms that are ours through the wonderful document called the Constitution or B. Conservative trying to keep traditions? Don't you think thats an easy choice?

yeah, but do you see how it would be a lot easier to make a woman have a child rather than make a man take care of it.

that's why it's bs.

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They say that people need to take responsibility for their actions but in reality who is it who ends up caring for the child and giving birth to it? Not the man.

This may surprise you, but I actually agree with you on this point. I think if women aren't allowed to get abortions, then men aren't allowed to skip out on the kids.

I think that the only way the man should have a say is if the woman wants to keep the baby, im not saying he can force her into an abortion, not at all, just that if she keeps it he will have an 18 financial responsibility.

He should be involved in the discussion and decision-making process, but the final decision lies with the woman.

you know what's funny? pro-life people are sexist. They say that people need to take responsibility for their actions but in reality who is it who ends up caring for the child and giving birth to it? Not the man.

I honestly feel that men should not be allowed an opinion on abortions because their bodies are not affected by pregnancy.

so f*** you all.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: marinab,

... ABORTION!...We have our different perspectives about that issue and I respect it. We come from different cultures in different places in the world and each has its influence on the perspective of the person regarding that issue. I come from Philippines and most Filipinos respect LIFE. Engaging yourself on sex doesn't only entails pleasure but more of it, it comes with RESPONSIBILITY.We are already talking about life here and it's not a joke! Before we engage ourselves into that act we should know for its consequences after it. Guys, it's not all about the pleasure but what comes after it is the responsibility of bearing a human being. I hope that everyone of us will be able to value the true essence LIFE....

Seriously, don't be retarded. That's all I can say.

Don't try to change my opinions because then I'm going to expect you to change yours.

Another thing that's wrong with Republicans. They think that by talking out their asses they're somehow going to convince someone of something. lol

Um, I did vote for the best and so did the rest of the country.

Seriously, I'm sick of republicans fucking up the country and democrats not doing anything about it.

I hate the two parties. We NEED more parties.

Lol, that last post was when I felt very liberal, today I feel spicy but unbiased

I HAD 12 ABORTIONS LAST MONTH. It was awesome.

Wolfie,
If this country is ever to change for the better, the youth have to start thinking independently and not blindly follow the either the Dems or the Repubs. Your characterizations of Republicans are silly, and your allegience to Democrats is scary. Republicans and Democrats try to differentiate themselves to make voters think there is a difference between them. While there are some differences with a few social issues, the Repubs and Dems are really two sides of the same coin. Under Bush, the government expanded government and increased deficit spending to record levels. Under Clinton, the government changed the welfare system and balanced the budget. Go figure. It's too early to tell what Obama will do, but the early signs are not good. He's filled his cabibet positions with retreads from Clinton and Bush, and he's initiating one of the biggest welfare giveaways in the history of mankind. This debt will have to be repaid by by future generations. That's you and me, our children, and our grandchildren. One other thing I'd like to mention - your contention that liberals don't want the government to run our lives is absolutely wrong. Liberals desire cradle to grave socialism with the government involved in all aspects of your lives. Liberals believe they know what's best for society, your children, their education, your work and workplace, how much money you should make, how much tax you should pay, etc. etc. ad nauseum. In the future, be independent and vote for the best candidate, regardless of party. That usually means voting an incumbent out of office. And one last thought to ponder - since Roe v Wade, it is estimated that over 40 million babies were aborted in the US, and now businesses in the US, championed by the US Chamber of Commerce, demand that illegal aliens be allowed into our country. So, we kill our unborn children, and then we depend on immigrants to do the work of the country. Is there anything wrong with that picture?

Wow, how ill-informed. Planned parenthood gives you free aids tests and dirt cheap abortions, obviously they don't show you how your baby is developing. If you want that go to the ob/gyn clinic.

Also I'd like to see your source that says PP doesn't let you see an ultra-sound. That's utter bollocks.

Also, there would never be a law saying "you can't see you're ultrasound" because that's unamerican.

You shouldn't even be complaining about reproductive choices because you're against the biggest one of all : the right to be pregnant or not.

Well then Planned Parenthood is a douchebaggy business, but that doesn't mean no one should be able to make a fully informed decision about whether or not she want to harbor a tiny life within her body for 9 months.

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"Pro abortion," that would mean you enjoy abortions.

Planned Parenthood is against laws that allow women to see an ultrasound before they have an abortion. That doesn't seem pro-choice to me at all. The best choices are the most informed ones. If you prevent women from getting all the information about pregnancy, fetuses, and abortion, your not giving her much room to make the best choice. That's why some( I'm not saying most or a lot, but it's proven that their are some) become very depressed after they find out more info about the baby's development, because they were never told about that before. That is not pro-choice. Sorry, but it's not, and it's not doing women any favors. It's pro-abortion. No matter how good your pro-choice intentions are, don't forget that Planned Parenthood is a business, and businesses are out to get customers. You may be pro-choice but they are not. They are clearly pro-abortion.

Wow. I love the divide between republicans and democrats even though we're all living in the same country.

alrighty i'm going to attack the right side now. i just feel like it.

Republicans are stupid. Their only concern is for themselves, they have no concept of what is good for everyone. Republicans are the children that don't share toys with other kids so no one has fun.

Liberals don't want the government running their lives. That's republicans you der DA ders. Who voted yes on the patriot act so now our government can spy on us? Who decided our government should force us to deal with this middle eastern bullshit? Who is constantly throwing up corrupt politicians? Republicans. I am sick of that party of snakes, they don't care about what is best for everyone, only what is best for themselves. How unAmerican can you get?

Though liberals have bad qualities as well, I much prefer them to the republicans and their new found views on moralityf and the war.

we need a party that is based on efficientcy. Whatever will make the standard of living higher and whatever will make us money should be the number 1 priority. Since america has to have national morals and fight terrorism and give tax breaks to wealthy people before making money the people have put themselves in debt.
jesus titty-fucking iceskatin tapdancing christ we need our priorities put straight.

Oh yes to get back to this silly post. people aren't "Pro abortion," that would mean you enjoy abortions. i'm pretty sure no one gets pregnant just to have their uterus scooped. these things are usually acidental. abortions are just like an insurance policy that all grown, living women deserve.

I think this was mentioned in another thread somewhere, but pregnancy and childbirth are long, laborious, and painful events and you cannot force a woman to participate in that against her will.

Yes, I am saying that some women are that selfish and greedy, and it is their right to be that way (keep in mind I am NOT referring to women who are victims of rape/incest) and it is their decision to make. If they wish to spare themselves the pain and don't want to go to all that trouble, then fine, as long as they terminate before the child is conscious of its surroundings and exsistence (sentient) I will support the right of every woman to be that selfish.
And if you argue that selfishness and greed are immoral, yes you are right, but everyone is selfish to some extent. Selfishness and Greed are the primary cause of every war since the beginning of time, our own government is selfish and greedy, we aren't going to rid the world of these emotions any time soon.

Seriously I don't get why more liberals aren't pro-life. Liberals tend to be anti-war, anti-sweatshops, pro-animal rights, ect. They seem to be against violence, for human rights. That's how I am. I hate violence and war, I'm for human rights for all humans. That's why I'm against abortion.
I'm a woman and a feminist. But woman have plenty of choice: condoms, the pill, Plan B, adoption.None of those end an innocent life, and all of them keep a woman from raising a child against her will.
Yeah, theirs exceptions, like rape. But other then that, women do have the many choices besides abortion.

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After doing some searching, I can't find any evidence of this. Do you have any?

I wish, actually I don't know about an RPG specifically. I'm sure if you can get a Grenade Launcher (M-19 military issue automatic 40mm grenande launche no less) you can get some form of rocket launcher

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i proably make no sense and srry for it

Look in to these lovely concepts we have called "grammer" and "the english language" the might help

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to all you stupid ppl who say that women should keep the baby as punishment to being raped or from incest ur fucking stupid and anal sure alot of women who get in thouse situations keep and raise the baby and become strong indivdual women, but as a punishment they should keep it and for what reason huh? for innocently walking down the street and some guy rapes them they gotta carry it? and how much stds does this person have that will effect the baby and this women.

What in the nine hells are you saying here? No one mentioned incest that I recall... and it's not punishment it's just saving the baby. After the woman goes to term she can give up the child to an orphanage and go along her merry way. She doesn't have to raise the child if she doesn't want to.

to all you stupid ppl who say that women should keep the baby as punishment to being raped or from incest ur fucking stupid and anal sure alot of women who get in thouse situations keep and raise the baby and become strong indivdual women, but as a punishment they should keep it and for what reason huh? for innocently walking down the street and some guy rapes them they gotta carry it? and how much stds does this person have that will effect the baby and this women.

and since when the fuck should the government decide womens rights to make their own decisons its our body our future not theirs... and so i say fuck the government and their male egos to take over women

and for information i am egual in this abortion issue i just believe women should have our own rights and killing babies is wrong. i proably make no sense and srry for it