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If the woman is raped she shouldnt even be walking around in a position that she might be raped. The woman should be forced to carry a baby as a result.

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*Face turning 3 different colors, restraining the urge to attack you with incoherant, insane rage* You ignorant little----------I don't even know how to respond to that. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, frosted is at a loss for words *crowd becomes shocked*!

One of my friends was raped, and guess what? She carried that baby and it was worse for her than any possible form of humanized tortures.

RAPE IS A CRIME, YOU SICK NASTY IGNORANT DISGUSTING INDIVIDUAL WHO IS A SICKENING SMUDGE ON THE FACE OF HUMANITY AND ALL THAT IS GOOD AND PURE!!!!!!!!

I absolutely cannot think of anything further to say. I am that stunned. In this case...go Celtic.

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Rape is an accident in a sense that you didn't mean or want it to happen. Just as getting pregnant by having voluntary sex is an accident - you didn't mean or want it to happen. An accident is "an unexpected and undesirable event; an unforeseen incident."

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RAPE IS NEVER AN ACCIDENT. most are planed to every detail. when your raped, you have no choice in anything. its the taking away of power to someone YOUR POWER! all rapes are about the power over someone else.

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Funny how when some people are put into a "tough" situation, they choke and forget their "morals."

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my morals or so called morals are that all live birth people are born equal. all live born people have an opinion. a 3 month old fetus is not born. if it is a child, can it breath on its own??? i dont think so. in a tough situation, we all do whats best for us. or what we think is best. celtic, i agree with you and support your decision.

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And not all kids get adopted you know?

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orphanages have gotten better over the years but still thousands of children are never adopted or in a nice foster home... dont be ignorant. if i was put into an orphanage, i would get away asap. adoption isnt a definate. most are never adopted and therefor when they turn 18, are sent on their way with 100$. thats not much to live on. ignorance is not bliss, educate yourself, QUOTE ME ON THAT!!

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Because I got raped and I AM NOT carrying a rapist's child in me

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if i was raped, i would have an abortion and if that was illigal and no one would preform it, then i would preform it myself. i would rather die then have a child of someone who forced motherhood on me. if i was raped, i would have no connection with that child and therefor would never want to love it. it wasnt my choice. i dont want it. even "accidental pregnancies" are your choice. and RAPE is NOT an accident.

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How can murdering babies ever be a decision a woman has to make? Why?

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a fetus is not a child nor baby when it is unborn. a woman has to make that decision to know what is best for her. she has to be able to take care of herself before she can take care of a child. and if it is of rape, the child should have never of been consieved. i dont believe in god. i dont believe that everything that happens, god wanted to happen. i do belive that everything happens for a reason and if a child is made and shouldnt of been, it has put you througha tough situation and for whatever reason it happened, it happened... it is a horrible thing but it is true.

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A person would not care how he got conceived.

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i care how i was conveived.... how abotu anyone else..... i was conceived before my parents got married. i cared. if my mother was raped i wouldnt want to be a reminder of that all my life. it would put me personaly in more deppression then i already am. theres no question that when a child is a conciquence of a rape, he/she does not feel guilty for it. a child of rape is a reminder of the incident and therefor is usualy hurt by the whole situation... i care how i was made and when and who was involved.

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Tennis balls are green, not yellow.

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ok whats with the whole tennis balls thing.... we have better things to argue about lol

FREE LOVE FOR ALL
AMBER

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Rape is an accident in a sense that you didn't mean or want it to happen. Just as getting pregnant by having voluntary sex is an accident - you didn't mean or want it to happen. An accident is "an unexpected and undesirable event; an unforeseen incident."

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No, because the man who raped you intended it. But yes, you never wanted the child, thus in that case, I agree.

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Ummmmm....yes. You shouldn't just let it destroy you. It tells a lot about a person if he/she lets someone get he/she down so much that he/she doesn't get over it.

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Are you an idiot or just faking it? Clearly your life's worse problems probably has been breaking up woth a girlfried. It took me 3 YEARS to get over my rape, and I'm still an insomniac, I still panic sometimes if a guy suddenly makes a move on me, and thanks to rape, I've grown a liking for men in their 30s.

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But it's not as developed as a child who's been in the stomach, for say, 6 months.

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Yes, but now, and when you're 20, you have a mind. I baby in the stomach is just like a battery-operated toy, it's jsut got the battery 9which is the heart), but nothing else really.

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Funny how when some people are put into a "tough" situation, they choke and forget their "morals."

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I have morals. You are just an extreme conservative, which makes you be against anything new that can probably bring good change. So, you'd probably do good in Amish country.

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Pregnancy does not = abortion. If in your mind it does, you should probably reexamine your conscience. You do not have to be pregnant to know about abortion. I'm sure many women who have been pregnant don't know that much about abortion. Even women who have had abortions don't necessarily know that much about it. You see, there is a thing called reason that many people don’t use because they are too “earthly”. You do not need to be in the situation to make a certain decision to know what you would decide. Morals are indestructible.

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Yes, but at least they're women. At least they can know when they get pregnant. Men just ****. And I have morals, it's just that, unlike you, I've had situations in life that have made me done extreme things.

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In your mind it may not have been. In the child's mind and in many others it certainly was. I mean, you would not have done it if you thought it was wrong, but that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't wrong.

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In your mind, it is wrong. So, it doesnt mean you're right either.

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I think the resolution in people's eyes make things appear to be grey.

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No, I just see things differtly from you. I also know many other truths that you wouldn't understand, but hell, I have that talent of knowing. Great.

And you call me anti-morals, did you know that I'm a healer? I cure people. I probably do more good in society than you do.

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I think that there are many weak people in the world that when the pressure is on their shoulders they cave in and throw out their morals for earthly desires.

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What, in your own perspective, do you consider morality? It is roughly defined as "a doctrine or system of moral conduct." With this being said, it is possible for one's morals to differ from another individuals. For instance, if a female aborts a child, she is considered a murderess; is that not what you're saying? Now, I'm sure you're intelligent enough to avoid such palpable blanket statements, thus I shall present the other side of the coin:

If a female aborts a child when that child has absolutely no viable chance of surviving its first ten minutes of life, is it not murder, as well? It is not arbitrary, for everyone makes choices based upon circumstance, but is that not more cruel and immoral than aborting that child? Either way, the child dies, so what is the morally correct way to handle such a fragile situation? If the child is born when it is blatant that it will die, is that not equivalent - or worse - than aborting it and preventing it from further suffering?

I'm sure God would condemn both, would he not?

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Rape is an accident in a sense that you didn't mean or want it to happen. Just as getting pregnant by having voluntary sex is an accident - you didn't mean or want it to happen. An accident is "an unexpected and undesirable event; an unforeseen incident."

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Rape is a crime; not an accident. A male doesn't rape a female and say, "Oops! I swear, it was an accident!" Things like that are premeditated. In cases of rape, when the female had absolutely NO option of partaking in sexual intercourse, you're saying she should carry the burden - upon the trauma of the rape - of a child for nine months? That is not fair to the mother or the child.

If a female carelessly has sex which results in an unexpected pregnancy, she should be required to have that child, unless it threatens the child's or her own health. I don't believe an unborn being should be punished for something within the boundaries of human control (e.g. incidents not affiliated with rape, mother and baby's health, etc.).

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In the child's mind and in many others it certainly was.

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Because, without a doubt, the child was thinking, "Ah, crap. I'm being aborted. This sucks. I hate you, Mom!"

Laughable.

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You wouldn't care if your father was Hitler? Or if your mother was Karla Faye Tucker?

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That has nothing to do with how I was conceived. But anyways, I would not "care" as in feeling that I don't deserve to live. Of course I would care in a sense that injustice is being done - similar to how I care about abortion.

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You're just supposed to "get over it" when you are raped and pregnant? What the hell is wrong with you?

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Ummmmm....yes. You shouldn't just let it destroy you. It tells a lot about a person if he/she lets someone get he/she down so much that he/she doesn't get over it.

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But how is it your right to decide what a women you've never met can or can not do?

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It is my duty as a human being to stick up for what is just. So, it is not only my "right", but my obligation.

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Abortion is never fine.

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My words exactly. Abortion is never fine, or satisfactory, or acceptable. Choose whichever word you want to complete the sentence - they all mean the same thing.

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Don't you think that the women knows her own situation better than you do, and therefore should have the right to decide what she wants to do?

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I think that there are many weak people in the world that when the pressure is on their shoulders they cave in and throw out their morals for earthly desires. You do realize that I believe abortion and murder are in the exact same category, don't you? If you did, you would not have asked such a silly question.

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But it's not as developed as a child who's been in the stomach, for say, 6 months.

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Yeah, and I'm not as developed as I'll be when I'm 20 years old. Humans grow. Why do you think that a human that is not as developed as us should be secondary to us?

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Rape isn't an accident. An accident is when you open your legs, ****, and then know you didin't want to be pregnant.

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Rape is an accident in a sense that you didn't mean or want it to happen. Just as getting pregnant by having voluntary sex is an accident - you didn't mean or want it to happen. An accident is "an unexpected and undesirable event; an unforeseen incident."

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And how do you know they dont want to know their real mom/dad?

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Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but I sure as hell wouldn't kill them before they were born just because they might want to know their real mom or dad. Life is not a thing to joke about. Certainty has to be involved if you are going to do something of great significance, which in nature, is wrong (abortion). If all you can go by is possibilities (the child might never be adopted, the child might be a mass murderer, the child might have a horrible life, the child might want to know his real mom/dad), then that is not qualified justification.

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Funny how 70% of people who are anti-abortion haven't
even been pregnant.

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Funny how when some people are put into a "tough" situation, they choke and forget their "morals."

Also, that percentage means nothing if you’re trying to prove the point that when you become pregnant you become pro-choice. If you wanted that percentage to have any meaning for your point, you would have had to put the percentage of women who have been pregnant that are pro-life. Because, most of the people in the world haven't been pregnant, it could very well be that 70% of people who consider themselves pro-choice have never been pregnant either.

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Like I say, if you're gonna talk about something, know it.

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Pregnancy does not = abortion. If in your mind it does, you should probably reexamine your conscience. You do not have to be pregnant to know about abortion. I'm sure many women who have been pregnant don't know that much about abortion. Even women who have had abortions don't necessarily know that much about it. You see, there is a thing called reason that many people don’t use because they are too “earthly”. You do not need to be in the situation to make a certain decision to know what you would decide. Morals are indestructible.

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WHAT I DID WAS NOT WRONG!

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In your mind it may not have been. In the child's mind and in many others it certainly was. I mean, you would not have done it if you thought it was wrong, but that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't wrong.

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They're gray. Everything is a tone of gray.

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I think the resolution in people's eyes make things appear to be grey.

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A person would not care how he got conceived.

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You wouldn't care if your father was Hitler? Or if your mother was Karla Faye Tucker?

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Unfortunate things happen in life and you should have to take them.

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You're just supposed to "get over it" when you are raped and pregnant? What the hell is wrong with you?

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O, but it's fine after 2 or 3 months because at that point in time it doesn't look as "human" and thus I don't feel as guilty.

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Abortion is never fine. It is always gruesome. But how is it your right to decide what a women you've never met can or can not do? Don't you think that the women knows her own situation better than you do, and therefore should have the right to decide what she wants to do?

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O, so just because they don't look "as human" it's not as wrong? Anyways, you support abortion and consequently you support all abortions - even the ones where the children look "human." Besides that, you can see th body parts of younger unborns as well. You think they have hands the size of pennies after 9 months? They start forming visible body parts within a couple weeks.

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But it's not as developed as a child who's been in the stomach, for say, 6 months.

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O, I see your logic now: "Just because a kid may not get adopted, it should get killed." Don't be stupid. Anyways, you don't have to be adopted to lead a good life. What do you think - the kid stays locked up in a poor little orphanage his whole life? Don't lie to yourself and make yourself think you did your kid a favor. Also, GIVE ME A BREAK! -- A person would not care how he got conceived. The person had no control over it. All the person can do is be thankful he/she exists and move on. I don't think about how I got conceived. And if it was by rape, I sure as hell wouldn't cry about it. Many children are accidents - that doesn't mean kill them.

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Rape isn't an accident. An accident is when you open your legs, ****, and then know you didin't want to be pregnant. Rape, was an intended attack. And how do you know they dont want to know their real mom/dad?

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Obviously she meant that no one should be killed unjustifiably - which is in the case of every abortion.

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Funny how 70% of people who are anti-abortion haven't
even been pregnant. Like I say, if you're gonna talk about something, know it.

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Why do you always have the parent's name in the same sentence as the child's? The child is its own person. Quit holding grudges on the child over something he/she was not able to control. Unfortunate things happen in life and you should have to take them. It's something out of your control. How selfish can you be to not take the hit and save a child's life. Many women who have been raped have had their and the rapists' children. They have not to be overly moral, but have proven to be sane and reasonable. Don't feel so sorry for yourself and try to justify something you did that was wrong.

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Oh **** off, boger. WHAT I DID WAS NOT WRONG! I hope a man sticks a broomstick up your *** someday so you can talk.

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O, but it's fine after 2 or 3 months because at that point in time it doesn't look as "human" and thus I don't feel as guilty.

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Yes, it is.

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Tennis balls are green, not yellow.

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They're gray. Everything is a tone of gray.

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The kids they show are abortions that happened late in the pregnancy, if they're early in the pregnany you don't see the kid's pieces.

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O, so just because they don't look "as human" it's not as wrong? Anyways, you support abortion and consequently you support all abortions - even the ones where the children look "human." Besides that, you can see th body parts of younger unborns as well. You think they have hands the size of pennies after 9 months? They start forming visible body parts within a couple weeks.

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And not all kids get adopted you know?

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O, I see your logic now: "Just because a kid may not get adopted, it should get killed." Don't be stupid. Anyways, you don't have to be adopted to lead a good life. What do you think - the kid stays locked up in a poor little orphanage his whole life? Don't lie to yourself and make yourself think you did your kid a favor. Also, GIVE ME A BREAK! -- A person would not care how he got conceived. The person had no control over it. All the person can do is be thankful he/she exists and move on. I don't think about how I got conceived. And if it was by rape, I sure as hell wouldn't cry about it. Many children are accidents - that doesn't mean kill them.

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Ok, so now that you believe everyone should live. If I came to you with a gun in my hand, aiming to kill you, and you had a weapon to fight back, would you try to kill me? Because, since everyone deserves to live...

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Obviously she meant that no one should be killed unjustifiably - which is in the case of every abortion.

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Because I got raped and I AM NOT carrying a rapist's child in me.

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Why do you always have the parent's name in the same sentence as the child's? The child is its own person. Quit holding grudges on the child over something he/she was not able to control. Unfortunate things happen in life and you should have to take them. It's something out of your control. How selfish can you be to not take the hit and save a child's life. Many women who have been raped have had their and the rapists' children. They have not to be overly moral, but have proven to be sane and reasonable. Don't feel so sorry for yourself and try to justify something you did that was wrong.

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Ignorant being, you don't kill it after you've kept it for 9 months.

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O, but it's fine after 2 or 3 months because at that point in time it doesn't look as "human" and thus I don't feel as guilty.

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Why kill this precious baby that a woman's body took 9 months to complete?

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Ignorant being, you don't kill it after you've kept it for 9 months.

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How can murdering babies ever be a decision a woman has to make? Why?

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Because I got raped and I AM NOT carrying a rapist's child in me.

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Why is this form of murder okay and nobody gets arrested for cold blooded, pre-meditated murder?

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Because serial-killer-like murder has no reason to happen (unless of course... some reasons.... but that's rare). Keeping a kid you don't want is a form of torture.

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Why are abortionists paid a big fat sum of cold hard cash to kill? Did these doctors go through med school, residency and pass the MCAT so they can be prepared to kill a baby?

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Yes, and yes.

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I was on campus when pro-life protestors carried these huge colorful and IN YOUR FACE photos of gruesome aborted babies. I do not want to go into detail here, but believe me they were the most graphic photo you could ever possibly imagine. More gruesome than any war movie you have seen.

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How can you fall for that soooo easily? The kids they show are abortions that happened late in the pregnancy, if they're early in the pregnany you don't see the kid's pieces. And please, it's like PETA, they put graphic pics because they have no other reason to say.

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If the circumstances are not set, then I believe the child should be given up for adoption. The child gets to live and the parents do not have to take care of the child or stretch their budget any farther than necessary.

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Oh, yeah, give him up for adoption. "Mom, who was my dad?"
"See, child, your daddy raped me."
And not all kids get adopted you know?

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I am pro-life and believe life begins at conception. ALL forms of life deserve to live..whether or not the cirumstances are set for the parents to take care of the child.

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Ok, so now that you believe everyone should live. If I came to you with a gun in my hand, aiming to kill you, and you had a weapon to fight back, would yuo try to kill me? Because, since everyone deserves to live...

I am pro-life and believe life begins at conception. ALL forms of life deserve to live..whether or not the cirumstances are set for the parents to take care of the child.

If the circumstances are not set, then I believe the child should be given up for adoption. The child gets to live and the parents do not have to take care of the child or stretch their budget any farther than necessary.

I was on campus when pro-life protestors carried these huge colorful and IN YOUR FACE photos of gruesome aborted babies. I do not want to go into detail here, but believe me they were the most graphic photo you could ever possibly imagine. More gruesome than any war movie you have seen.

How can murdering babies ever be a decision a woman has to make? Why?

Why kill this precious baby that a woman's body took 9 months to complete?

Why is this form of murder okay and nobody gets arrested for cold blooded, pre-meditated murder?

Why are abortionists paid a big fat sum of cold hard cash to kill? Did these doctors go through med school, residency and pass the MCAT so they can be prepared to kill a baby?

I have read Kerry's stance on abortion and even though I can't stand Bush, I have to agree with Bush on voting a supreme court justice who is going to overturn Roe vs. Wade.

Murder is never right.

Do unto others as others do unto you.

Just be happy that you were never ever aborted.

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Originally posted by CelticNewAger:

quote:

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So you instead propose to kill the child who was no more instrumental in the rape than the mother. You combat evil with one far greater. Plus now the morning-after pill is available which doesn't kill the baby but prevents it from ever coming into being. And if you can afford an abortion than you can afford the pill. and what's wrong with foster care? is it worse than death? if the answer is yes then perhaps we should explore a reformation of the nation's foster care system rather than brandishing our "choice" to kill. the only logical and ethical justification I could find for abortion is if the mother is at risk and the baby will die anyway.

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Isn't the morning after pill illegal now thanks to Bush-idiot? And it's really hard to talk about rape at first when it happens to you. Foster care, in which would have requiered me to carry the thing inside me for 9 months, yes would have been worse than death. And if abortion wouldnt be legal, I guarantee you I would have tried to abort it, even if it means stabbing my stomach, because I just hated the thing for being conceived by rape. In fact, I believe that even if I did have it, as soon as I'd seen it I'd try to choke it, and if I kept it, I would have undoubtly killed it.

Well, when I was raped and I found out I was pregnant, I was depressed to the point where I was suicidal. So yes, it was a risk for me to keep the kid.

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I think its illegal because 2 girls died out of like 323482318957 other girls... So it was reason enough to ban it... As if cars don't kill anyone.

quote:

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So you instead propose to kill the child who was no more instrumental in the rape than the mother. You combat evil with one far greater. Plus now the morning-after pill is available which doesn't kill the baby but prevents it from ever coming into being. And if you can afford an abortion than you can afford the pill. and what's wrong with foster care? is it worse than death? if the answer is yes then perhaps we should explore a reformation of the nation's foster care system rather than brandishing our "choice" to kill. the only logical and ethical justification I could find for abortion is if the mother is at risk and the baby will die anyway.

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Isn't the morning after pill illegal now thanks to Bush-idiot? And it's really hard to talk about rape at first when it happens to you. Foster care, in which would have requiered me to carry the thing inside me for 9 months, yes would have been worse than death. And if abortion wouldnt be legal, I guarantee you I would have tried to abort it, even if it means stabbing my stomach, because I just hated the thing for being conceived by rape. In fact, I believe that even if I did have it, as soon as I'd seen it I'd try to choke it, and if I kept it, I would have undoubtly killed it.

Well, when I was raped and I found out I was pregnant, I was depressed to the point where I was suicidal. So yes, it was a risk for me to keep the kid.

So you instead propose to kill the child who was no more instrumental in the rape than the mother. You combat evil with one far greater. Plus now the morning-after pill is available which doesn't kill the baby but prevents it from ever coming into being. And if you can afford an abortion than you can afford the pill. and what's wrong with foster care? is it worse than death? if the answer is yes then perhaps we should explore a reformation of the nation's foster care system rather than brandishing our "choice" to kill. the only logical and ethical justification I could find for abortion is if the mother is at risk and the baby will die anyway.

"It's times like this that make me sad I'm alive
Standing with a fool's fixed grin
Don't pretend you can't see me cry
It's not like I have crocodile skin"

RAPE ISNT A CHOICE... ALL RAPES ARE UNPLANED BY THE VICTOM! MOST ARE NOT "WALKING AROUND IN A POSITION THAT SHE MIGHT BE RAPED" WOMAN THAT ARE RAPED DO NOT CHOSE TO MAKE A BABY!

most woman arent raped because their dressed in a compermising way. how horrible! woman are raped every day and its not their fault. they should have to carry a child that was not in any way their choice to make? not all woman that are raped are on a street corner and not all woman that are raped are in an allyway... some woman are at home.. a intruder comes in and sees her... and rapes her... what about that. their not "WALKING" arround and their not in any position to be raped... no one is asking to be raped... some people are victoms VICTOMS! please think about this! if you were raped... someone is making you do something AGENST your will... you arent having sex with these people... your getting hurt by these people!
AMBER

not starting trouble but.... what about rape? shouldnt that be pro-choice? and what about having a child when you cant pay for its food, education, shelter, and all needs? pro-choice is what i believe in. if a woman isnt able to take care of a child right now and (like me) would never ever put their child into foster care why would that child have to suffer because the mother was either raped, was a working girl and needed the money or was just a slip up? understand? im not a liberal, im not republic or democratic... im not a tree hugger and im not gunna let anyone put me into a catagory. but i will tell you that im poor and have had a disadvantaged childhood. i know that some woman shouldnt of had their children but they couldnt help it. pro-choice doesnt mean that we cant chose if our children should have a better education and all that... we (woman) should be able to chose if we have an abortion and if we should keep it. its NOT your choice if this child that someones carrying can or can not live. yes every fetus is a child and technaly a person, but what if this child is born by a mother who can not take care of it? think about it... if you live somewhere and dont make enough money to support yourself or the children you already have or dont then why put another in danger? and babies haveing babies... 11 and 12 year old children are having kids... can they take care of these children? i am pro-choice and pro-life... whitch ever is the best for the child.
AMBER

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Abortion is murder and should be illegal. Babies are killed by Abortion. If the woman is raped she shouldnt even be walking around in a position that she might be raped. The woman should be forced to carry a baby as a result.

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I don't believe in the death penalty but you should be shot for being so stupid.