I don't smoke

Can I shake this up a bit and ask who on this thread actually does smoke? I think it would be interesting...

I don't...

Kate, you still have not backed up your statement. It is not preposterous that thousands of non-smokers die of secondhand smoke a year. That is believable. Let me quote what you said.

quote:

Thousands of otherwise health people die each year because they got lung cancer from second hand somke [sic].

Explain to me how you can prove those 30-some THOUSAND people were otherwise healthy. You can't. That's ridiculous.

And you also have to look at this.

They say those deaths are due to ETS, which is mainstream AND sidestream tobacco smoke, according to Terry Martin, not just secondhand smoke in other words. And if you look at the fine print, those statistics were taken in Septemeber of 1997, almost 9 years ago.

You need to put everything into perspective.

this sure is a controvercial issue!

smoking in public places is bad because some people won't like the smell. [color:[/color]

The Facts about Secondhand Smoke

The Facts about Secondhand Smoke
Secondhand smoke is the third leading preventable cause of death in the U.S. killing 38,000 to 65,000 nonsmokers every year.Secondhand smoke causes lung cancer, other types of cancer, and heart disease in nonsmokers.
Exposure to secondhand smoke can cause children to develop asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia, other respiratory infections, and ear infections. Exposure to secondhand smoke also increase the risk that infants will die of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).
Food service workers appear to be 50% more likely than the general population to develop lung cancer, largely because many of them are exposed to secondhand smoke on the job.
Besides causing disease, secondhand smoke also exacerates a number of pre-existing health conditions, including some allergies, asthma, bronchitis, other respiratory ailments, and heart disease.
Cigarette smoke contains over 4,700 chemicals, over 200 poisons, and over 50 human carcinogens. The poisons in cigarette smoke include carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, and methyl isocyanate. The carcinogens in cigarette smoke include benzo[a]pyrene and NNK, which cause lung cancer; nitrosamines, which cause cancer of the lung, respiratory system, and other organs; aromatic amines, which cause bladder and breast cancer; formaldehyde, which causes nasal cancer; and benzene, which causes leukemia. The carcinogen NNK has been found in nonsmokers who have been exposed to secondhand smoke.
Each year environmental tobacco smoke kills approximately 53,000 Americans, the same number of Americans killed in the Vietnam War. (Action on Smoking and Health, Special Report, Involuntary Smoking: The Factual Basis for Action, 1993)
The Environmental Protection Agency has classified environmental tobacco smoke as a “Group A” Carcinogen – a substance known to cause cancer in humans. Environmental tobacco smoke joins a list, which includes substances such as radon and asbestos. (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Respiratory Health Effectsd of Involuntary Smoking, 1993)
Waiters and waitresses have almost twice the risk of lung cancer due to involuntary exposure to environmental tobacco smoke (ETS). (Siegel, Michael, “Involuntary Smoking in the Restaurant Workplace, “Journal of the American Mecical Association, July 28, 1993; 270: 490-493.)

If this isn't enough to back my "preposterous" claim, there's more here

There are a bunch of links on the page I just posted...here is the gist of it:

Facts You Should Know About Second Hand Smoke
From Terry Martin,

Passive Smoking is Dangerous
Second hand smoke is a toxic cocktail consisting of poisons and carcinogens. There are over 4000 chemical compounds in second hand smoke; 200 of which are known to be poisonous, and upwards of 60 have been identified as carcinogens.

When a cigarette is smoked, about half of the smoke is inhaled / exhaled (mainstream smoke) by the smoker and the other half floats around in the air(sidestream smoke).

Environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) plays a part in more health problems than you might realize. The following facts point out why it is so important to have smoking bans in place. No one should be forced to breathe in air tainted with cigarette smoke.
Second Hand Smoke and Cancer
The U.S. Environment Protection Agency (EPA) has classified second hand smoke as a Group A carcinogen.

Cancers linked to passive smoking include:
Lung cancer - 3000 nonsmokers die every year from lung cancer caused by ETS
Nasal sinus cavity cancer
Cervical Cancer
Breast cancer
Bladder cancer
Some chemical compounds found in smoke only become carcinogenic after they've come into contact with certain enzymes found in many of the tissues of the human body.

Chemicals in Cigarette Smoke
Nonsmokers and Lung Cancer
The Risks of Second Hand Smoke to a Child
Low birthweight for gestational age
Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS)- children whose mothers smoked during pregnancy have an increased risk of SIDS.
The EPA estimates that passive smoking is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 of these infections in children under 18 months annually
Asthma - According to the EPA, between 200,000 and 1,000,000 kids with asthma have their condition worsened by second hand smoke every year. Also, passive smoking may also be responsible for thousands of new cases of asthma every year
Chronic respiratory symptoms such as cough and wheezing may be attributed to second hand smoke.
Children who breathe in second hand smoke are more likely to suffer from dental cavities, eye and nose irritation, and irritability
Middle ear infections - exposure to ETS causes buildup of fluid in the middle ear, resulting in 700,000 to 1.6 million physician office visits yearly
Second Hand Smoke and Children
Second Hand Smoke at Home Threatens Children
How Second Hand Smoke Can Affect the Heart
Heart disease mortality - an estimated 35,000 to 62,000 deaths are caused from heart disease in people who are not current smokers, but who are exposed to ETS
Acute and chronic coronary heart disease
Passive smoking has been linked to the narrowing of the carotid arteries, which carry blood to the brain
Exposure to second hand smoke hastens hardening of the arteries, a condition known as artherosclerosis
Continual exposure to ETS has been shown to nearly double the chance of heart attack

Second Hand Smoke Statistics

They just went smoke-free in Windsor-Essex County on May 31...(I heard it on the radio.)


My question is why it would be so difficult for someone to have a cigarette before entering a restaurant for dinner, and then again 2 hours later when they are finished. IMO, anyone who would have a problem going that long without smoking has a problem...

quote:

Thousands of otherwise health people die each year because they got lung cancer from second hand somke.

I would like to see some facts to back up that preposterous statement.

You seem to think its just people with asthema(sp) who are affected by second hand smoke. Thats not true. Thousands of otherwise health people die each year because they got lung cancer from second hand somke. Therefore by smoking in public you are interfering with someone else's right to be healthy. Your rights end where someone else's begin. Thats why smoking in public should not be allowed.

quote:

Smoking outside is fine, but indoors it's not good for anyone's health. Feel free to put yourself at risk, but don't put others at it. And even if you deny the ahrmful affects of second hand smoke, there are people with asthema that cannot be around smoking. Why should they be punished for a choice you made?

Indoors I agree with. But banning smoking in open, large places, won't happen.

quote:

Originally posted by yogore:
I disagree. Under that saying, why can't someone drive without a license? It's freesom, why not? Because it puts others at risk and preventing harm to others should be the goal of every person.

You need a drivers license to drive on government owned roads. On private property, no matter where, it's perfectly legal for some kid to go drive a car, as long as he isn't going on any public roads.

So under that logic, the old laws stand, and government buildings, (ie. schools, gov. offices, etc.) should have smoking banned.

But what I am against, quite vehemently, is banning smoking in privately owned buildings like bars, restaraunts, and offices. It's up to the property owner to decide what goes on on there land or in thier place of buisness.

quote:

And even if you deny the ahrmful affects of second hand smoke, there are people with asthema that cannot be around smoking. Why should they be punished for a choice you made?

The same reason I should be able to go to a restraunt and have the ability to order anything with peanuts in it without fear of having peanuts banned because of those with alergies. Asthmatics are responsible for thier own disability.

quote:

I saw Y tu Mamá También

I love that movie.

quote:

Why ban smoking in public? I hate smoking, but that's like banning belching and drinking Coke in public.

Smoking outside is fine, but indoors it's not good for anyone's health. Feel free to put yourself at risk, but don't put others at it. And even if you deny the ahrmful affects of second hand smoke, there are people with asthema that cannot be around smoking. Why should they be punished for a choice you made?

quote:

And in order to maintain an acceptable level of freedom you might have take some risks.

I disagree. Under that saying, why can't someone drive without a license? It's freesom, why not? Because it puts others at risk and preventing harm to others should be the goal of every person.

I agree. Let's ban belching too! Onward!

quote:

Which is why there IS no peeing section. There's lots of urine in every public pool you go into. I garuntee it. But urine is sterile and essentially harmless. Just like second hand smoke.

Well, fuck, thanks, now I shall refrain from swimming pools forever. Especially since I saw Y tu Mamá También as well and that whole scene that whilst masturbating, the two guys cum in the pool...egh...

Why ban smoking in public? I hate smoking, but that's like banning belching and drinking Coke in public.

quote:

Originally posted by SkyQuill:
All I have to say is on smoking in public places is,

Why should I have to suffer from second-hand smoke and who knows what else because of someone else's bad choices?

Because you live in the real world. And in order to maintain an acceptable level of freedom you might have take some risks. The government can't garuntee you safety and eternal health.

All I have to say is on smoking in public places is,

Why should I have to suffer from second-hand smoke and who knows what else because of someone else's bad choices?

quote:

Originally posted by Meagan87:
I heard it said like this before and it stuck with me...

Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool.

Which is why there IS no peeing section. There's lots of urine in every public pool you go into. I garuntee it. But urine is sterile and essentially harmless. Just like second hand smoke.

quote:

I heard it said like this before and it stuck with me...

Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool.

THANK-YOU. that is brilliant and totally true! aLlison