Isn't there somewhere in europe where pot is legal. I think that the crime rate is down there. So therefore, i think that it would be a good idea if it helped the crime rate.

"Marijuana has ZERO side effects." - This just shows that you refuse to read the evidence Bushsupporter has posted on this board and the countless evidence I have provided on other posts. If you can not listen to facts than I feel sorry for you.

(What are the short-term effects of Marijuana use?
The short-term effects of marijuana use include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch); difficulty in thinking and problem solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate, anxiety, and panic attacks.
THC in marijuana is strongly absorbed by fatty tissues in various organs. Generally, traces of THC can be detected by standard urine testing methods several days after a smoking session. In heavy chronic users, traces can sometimes be detected for weeks after they have stopped using marijuana.


What are the long-term effects of Marijuana use?
People who smoke marijuana often have the same respiratory problems as cigarette smokers. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. They are also at greater risk of getting lung infections like pneumonia. Marijuana contains some of the same, and sometimes even more, of the cancer-causing chemicals found in cigarette smoke.


Effects of Heavy Marijuana Use on Learning and Social Behavior
Marijuana affects memory, judgment and perception. Learning and attention skills are impaired among people who use marijuana heavily. Longitudinal research on marijuana use among young people below college age indicates those who use marijuana have lower achievement than the non-users, more acceptance of deviant behavior, more delinquent behavior and aggression, greater rebelliousness, poorer relationships with parents, and more associations with delinquent and drug-using friends.

(http://www.drugs.com/Marijuana/)

"The reason people like marijuana is because its so pure and clean in the first place." - Funny, people thought the same thing about tobacco. Look at it now. Addictives are something new to tobacco, incase you forgot (Which you obviously have.).

And are you suggesting that no one will buy marijuana because they will be able to grow it tehmselves? This is not the case with tobacco, so why would you assume this would happen with marijuana.

(Most additives are not necessary and few were used before 1970

http://www.ash.org.uk/html/regulation/html/additives.html)

You tell me not to compare marijuana with tobacco but you people do it all the time. You peolle say tobacco is just as bad as marijuana. they are both things people smoke, so why can't they be compared? Don't start and arguement and then tell others not to use it against you, it is just imature.

Marijauna has killed zero people? I don't think so. Why don't you give me some proof. i list one example below and can give you many more upon request. You might compare these numbers to tobacco and alcohol related deaths but that is irrelevant. The numbers are scewed because those products are legal and marijuana is illegal. As a result, tobacco and alcohol are more easibley obtainiable.

(In what seems likely to be a very controversial report, two forensic toxicologists from Oslo, Norway have recently published a paper describing six cases of possible marijuana-related death (L. Bachs and H. Morland, Acute cardiovascular fatalities following cannabis use. Forensic Science International, Vol124 (2-3):200-203, December 27, 2001).

http://www.forensic-drug-abuse-advisor.com/200201marijuana_related_deaths.htm

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Originally posted by marine16:
You then talk about the medical uses of marijuana which you liberals seem to be stuck on. The medical community allready has prescripitiond rugs that yield the same/better medical results as marijuana. Legalizing marijuana for medical reasons would just be redunanat. So let's throw this arguement out based on redundancey.

You then say marijuana is so great they do not need to add adictives. People have said the same thing about tobacco. So lets throw this arguement out based on stupidity.

You also say tobacco companies dumb down tobacco because the real tobacco produces a high. This is simply not true. Have you ever smoked a cigar? Let's throw this arguement out based on stupidity, once again.

You also say people will grow their own marijuana so it will be cheap. People grow their won tobacco and the price is still the same. So let us, once again, throw this arguement based on stupidity.

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Most of those medications you use to treat pain are bad for your liver and have side effects. Marijuana has ZERO side effects.


Have you ever smoked weed? its wayy different then smoking a cigar. Cigars don't treat pain or nausea.

They would not put additives in marijauna, it would cause an outrage. The reason people like marijuana is because its so pure and clean in the first place.

People who grow their own won't have to buy. So price doesnt matter. Marijuana is pretty simple to grow and it yeilds a lot more anyways.

Stop comparing marijauna to tobacco, its like comparing sugar to crack. Tobacco is the biggest killar, while pot has killed ZERO.

Firstly, I listed 3 reasons why Alchohol is WORSE than marijuana, which is why I would choose marijuana over alchohol if given a choice, which I am not given legally. People figured used to think alchohol was a terrible terrible thing which lead to prohibition, the result was a boom in organized crime, the reverbations of which still echo today despite repeal of prohibition. Marijuana has already been "introduced" to the population and outlawed, much like alchohol, but we haven't repealed the marijuana ban. Why Not? What are the medicinal uses of Alchohol? Helping people throw up? As an adult I should be allowed to choose what I'd like to do in the privacy of my home, even if it is smoking or drinking.
As for smoked marijuana, yes it is the most common way it's used, but my point was that marijuana is not bad for you if ingested or vaporized, hence the synthesized THC pills. Yes there are other medications that dull pain, produce emotional euphoria, and stimulate appetite, but none that do so all at once and none that come from a plant. Also if the argument is that there is no need for alternative medicines for the same ailment, what's up with Bayer, Aspirin, Tylenol, Nuprin, Excedrin, etc? Different meds work different ways for different people, and there is always reason to research new drugs and see what they can yield. Heroin is a drug and it's used to make the best pain killer we have...Morphine. If we had said "Ewww, Heroin is a drug, we can't use it for medical purposes", we would not have Morphine. Marijuana is also the only drug that a patient can make themselves instead of having to rely on an outdated medicaid system and an overpriced insurance system.
I have smoked many cigars, but none that were made from strictly top leaf of tobbaco, and despite that I still catch a "buzz" from smoking them. If you haven't smoked top leaf tobacco that you yourself have taken from a tobacco plant then you don't know what you are talking about.
People do not grow their own tobacco for the most part because they don't know they can or they don't know how, or they don't want to put in the effort, and it only flourishes in certain parts of the country, namely the south.
I'm not a liberal, check around the boards. I'm a fairly conservative christian "and god gave them all of the seed bearing plants to use".
You can't throw any of my arguments out "based on stupidity or hypocracy" those are insults, not logical arguments, Please try to be polite or you WILL look stupid.

Oh my goodness, where to start?...

Barkid, you just listed three reaons why alcohol is horrible. Then you say marijuana is not different than alcohol. Why would you want to introduce the population to something that is just as bad? So let's throw this arguement out based on hypocracy.

You say the article Bushsupporter produced only dealt with smoking marijuana. Ihave news for you, that is the most common way people use marijuana.

You then talk about the medical uses of marijuana which you liberals seem to be stuck on. The medical community allready has prescripitiond rugs that yield the same/better medical results as marijuana. Legalizing marijuana for medical reasons would just be redunanat. So let's throw this arguement out based on redundancey.

You then say marijuana is so great they do not need to add adictives. People have said the same thing about tobacco. So lets throw this arguement out based on stupidity.

You also say tobacco companies dumb down tobacco because the real tobacco produces a high. This is simply not true. Have you ever smoked a cigar? Let's throw this arguement out based on stupidity, once again.

You also say people will grow their own marijuana so it will be cheap. People grow their won tobacco and the price is still the same. So let us, once again, throw this arguement based on stupidity.

Take it from an experienced bartender that has been recreationally using pot for 7 years now, alchohol is just as dangerous if not moreso than marijuana. It impairs driving more, is more addictive, and causes much worse judgment effects under the influence. I wouldn't say that marijuana is completely safe but if I have the ability to choose cigarettes or alchohol why, as a responsible adult, am I not allowed to choose marijuana?
The adverse effects of marijuana article is interesting but only appears to have information on smoked marijuana which is the worst way to use it.
As for the medical benefits of marijuana, they are interesting because they differ from many other drugs. Marijuana works as a low level pain killer that also causes relaxation and an increased appetite, 3 things that make it wonderful for cancer patients and the elderly. The idea of a lung cancer patient smoking joints is incredibly ludicrous, which is why a process has been developed to synthesize THC into pills that can be obtained with a prescription, eliminating the problems associated with smoking and possessing actual marijuana.
If marijuana was legal you would be able to grow it (legally) at a reasonable cost and avoid taxes and cartels, just like you can do now with tobacco. Yes it is legal to grow your own tobacco, just not legal to sell it privately to others for a profit (because of taxes).
As for "marijuana companies" putting additives in their product like big tobacco, marijuana is so great that they really don't need to do this. The common way that marijuana is laced in the streets is that it is dipped in ether or formyldahide (spelling?). This causes a "greater" high but is not used on good marijuana because it isn't needed, it is only used on crap that doesn't speak for itself when smoked. In support of this argument I point again at the cigarette companies. They have to use additives because a cigarette after being processed and preservatives put in, actually has almost no good tobacco left in it. If you take the top leaf of a tobacco plant and smoke it the high is so intense many people pass out, the companies have to dull down tobacco and add additives to make it worth smoking. If you disagree and you live in the south, like I used to, give it a try. In fact, many people that smoke natural tobacco from the plant use marijuana to DULL DOWN the high from the tobacco.
In closing I would just like to say that NORML seems to have the best guidlines regarding responsible marijuana use so check them out.

Bauhaus, you apparently lack the ability to filter trough old debates we have had to find my proof.

Just because God created marijuana does not mean it was created to be smoked. You have self determination (Which can lead to eternal damnation.). Perhaps you and your posse shoudl read the Bible, you might learn something. But I realise that would take to much away from you smoking marijuana.

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Originally posted by luvabug22:

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Marijuana grows naturally, are you saying God made a mistake?

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He most likely didn't create it for the intention people use it for. God created oil and I'm sure he didn't intend for countries to go to war over it.

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marijauna is used to treat 30 different illneses, maybe there was a reason he put it here. But maybe he did make a mistake and thats why he had to create republicans.

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Marijuana grows naturally, are you saying God made a mistake?

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He most likely didn't create it for the intention people use it for. God created oil and I'm sure he didn't intend for countries to go to war over it.

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Originally posted by marine16:
I am not interested in opinions on this matter, I am interested in facts. If you have no facts to bring to the arguement, than do not enter the debate.

I have already proven with Bushsupporter that marijuana is not safe and thus should not be legal. You people do not listen to facts and simply argue off of emotions. You compare cigaratte somkers to to marijuana smokers despite the fact that an average marijuana smoker holds the marijuana smoke in his lungs more than 5 times a cigarette smoker does. Then you people go on to tell us how marijuana is no more harmless than tobacco. Why would you want to give people another outlet to harm themselves?

I have debunked all myths, not regarding helth effects, of legalizing marijuana and all you can do is tell me I am a liar. Nice Try.

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I'm still waiting for your sources. And yes you still are a liar.


Marine and Bushsupporter I am sure you are both Christians... Marijuana grows naturally, are you saying God made a mistake?

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Originally posted by Bushsupporter:
Hmmm. I'm sorry, but did bauhaus just use WebMD as a credible medical source? Ya, I think he did. OK then we can throw that argument out. I, on the other hand would like to cite the American Medical Association's Council on Scientific Affairs. Here are the adverse effects of marijuana: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13625.html#adverse_effects_of_marijuana

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read the article on webmd, it has sources itself.

I am not interested in opinions on this matter, I am interested in facts. If you have no facts to bring to the arguement, than do not enter the debate.

I have already proven with Bushsupporter that marijuana is not safe and thus should not be legal. You people do not listen to facts and simply argue off of emotions. You compare cigaratte somkers to to marijuana smokers despite the fact that an average marijuana smoker holds the marijuana smoke in his lungs more than 5 times a cigarette smoker does. Then you people go on to tell us how marijuana is no more harmless than tobacco. Why would you want to give people another outlet to harm themselves?

I have debunked all myths, not regarding helth effects, of legalizing marijuana and all you can do is tell me I am a liar. Nice Try.

Hmmm. I'm sorry, but did bauhaus just use WebMD as a credible medical source? Ya, I think he did. OK then we can throw that argument out. I, on the other hand would like to cite the American Medical Association's Council on Scientific Affairs. Here are the adverse effects of marijuana: Marijuana is not as safe as the pot-head liberals would have us beleive.

While I personally think legalization could be a good thing, I doubt that America would ever take that route. I do think that some form of dicriminilization is a fair compromise. The smoking of anything is harmful to your lungs, but marijuana used in moderation is no worse than cigarrettes or drinking alochol. The real problem lies in the legal consequences. If busted with marijuna, your life can become very messed up. I know kids who have been kicked out of school and fired from their jobs. Personally, I think that is a lot more counter-producitve for society than smoking a little weed. If posession of small quanities for comsumption was deciminilized so you recieved only a small fine, things would work better. The amount of money spent on incarcinating drug offenders (esspecially users) is ridiculous. They could save that money and offer drug rehab programs.
But now, I am just ranting. I have very strong opinions on this subject.

i am against it because it is totally insane... do you want the whole world to be using marijuana and get high??? maybe, to you, but its really insane and really disgusting.

Wouldnt it have been so much better if I just pulled some things out of my *** without any sources? Come on Marine, I know you can do better than that. Lets see some sources, I'd like some unbiased ones but hey whatever it takes to make youself look dumb.

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Originally posted by marine16:

Myth Three - Marijuana will be a safer product if it is legalized. Most of your drugies claim marijuana is no more harmelss than regular tobacco. Unfortunatley for this arguement the tobacco companies add things to their tobacco to make you want more, thus the tobacco becomes much more dangerous. Marijuana companies will do the same thing to keep the consumer coming back.

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Smoked marijuana contains about the same amount of carcinogens as does an equivalent amount of tobacco. It should be remembered, however, that a heavy tobacco smoker consumes much more tobacco than a heavy marijuana smoker consumes marijuana. This is because smoked tobacco, with a 90% addiction rate, is the most addictive of all drugs while marijuana is less addictive than caffeine. Two other factors are important. The first is that paraphernalia laws directed against marijuana users make it difficult to smoke safely. These laws make water pipes and bongs, which filter some of the carcinogens out of the smoke, illegal and, hence, unavailable. The second is that, if marijuana were legal, it would be more economical to have cannabis drinks like bhang (a traditional drink in the Middle East) or tea which are totally non-carcinogenic. This is in stark contrast with "smokeless" tobacco products like snuff which can cause cancer of the mouth and throat. When all of these facts are taken together, it can be clearly seen that the reverse is true: marijuana is much SAFER than tobacco.


(The 90% figure comes from Health Consequences of Smoking:
Nicotine Addiction, Surgeon General's Report, 1988. In Health magazine in an article entitled, "Hooked, Not Hooked" by Deborah Franklin (pp. 39-52), compares the addictives of various drugs and ranks marijuana below coffeine. For current information on cannabis drinks see Working Men and Ganja:
Marijuana Use in Rural Jamaica by M. C. Dreher, Institute for the Study of Human Issues, 1982, ISBN 0-89727-025-8. For information on cannabis and actual cancer risk, see Marijuana and Health, ibid. )

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Myth Four - Legalizing marijuana will help the medical community. If this would be true there would be a resounding call from the medical community to legalize marijuana -- there is no such call. The medical community allready has the means, capabilties, and products that have the same/better effect of the "medical" purposes of marijuana.

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WRONG.
http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/70/80972.htm

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Myth Six - Legalizing marijuana will reduce the call for harder drugs. If this were to be true than illegal marijuana would have allready reduced the call for harder drugs a great deal. Once again, this simply has not happened. The medical community has come to the conclusion time and time again that marijuana is a gate way drug.

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This is one of the more persistent myths. A real world example of what happens when marijuana is readily available can be found in Holland. The Dutch partially legalized marijuana in the 1970s. Since then, hard drug use-heroin and cocaine-have DECLINED substantially. If marijuana really were a gateway drug, one would have expected use of hard drugs to have gone up, not down. This apparent "negative gateway" effect has also been observed in the United States. Studies done in the early 1970s showed a negative correlation between use of marijuana and use of alcohol. A 1993 Rand Corporation study that compared drug use in states that had decriminalized marijuana versus those that had not, found that where marijuana was more available-the states that had decriminalized-hard drug abuse as measured by emergency room episodes decreased. In short, what science and actual experience tell us is that marijuana tends to substitute for the much more dangerous hard drugs like alcohol, cocaine, and heroin.

( The Dutch experience is written up in "The Economics of Legalizing Drugs", by Richard J. Dennis, The Atlantic Monthly, Vol 266, No. 5, Nov 1990, p. 130. See "A Comparison of Marijuana Users and Non-users" by Norman Zinberg and Andrew Weil (1971) for the negative correlation between use of marijuana and use of alcohol. The 1993 Rand Corporation study is "The Effect of Marijuana Decriminalization on Hospital Emergency Room Episodes: 1975 - 1978" by Karyn E. Model. )

People bought tobacco before addictives were imposed. Addictives simply boost sells. What would you rather make $5 from a one time user, or thouysdans of dolars of an addict?

Also, common street peddlers lack the means and desire to do this so do most cartels. Not to mention the fact that marijuana is allready addictive as is. If they could, they would.

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Unfortunatley for this arguement the tobacco companies add things to their tobacco to make you want more, thus the tobacco becomes much more dangerous. Marijuana companies will do the same thing to keep the consumer coming back.

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That sounds like a myth. If they wanted p