quote:

wring that b*tch's neck and rip its stomach open with your teeth and go into a carnal exctasy as the scent of its blood mingles in your nostrils?

That gives me warm fuzzies inside.

None! Poor fox!

quote:

We are sentient, we value the life of our own. Animals don't. One wolf pack won't fight to save another wolf pack. They will fight to save those within there own pack, no others.

Wow, what a very poor argument. You only used one species of animal as an example. That would be like saying that because Osama bin Laden is Muslim, then all Muslims must be terrorists. You obviously have not done any research on this subject (or at most very little). I suggest you read the book When Elephants Weep by Jeffery Mousaieff Masson and Susan McCarthy, there is an entire chapter called "Compassion, Rescue and the Altruism Debate" that documents many accounts of animals saving other animals, including one of an elephant who attempted to free a black rhino calf stuck in the mud.
I also recommend visiting these two websites:
http://www.animalsentience.org
http://www.sentientbeings.org

quote:

Let me ask you this, why don't all the animals gang together to fight the hunters?

Uh, because we have guns? Even if they tried, they would be shot, right?

quote:

No, but I did crush the skulls of a couple mice in my teeth.

Ew, I did not need to know that.

quote:

You actually ever rip open something's stomach?

No, but I did crush the skulls of a couple mice in my teeth. Not a big accomplishment, I know. But I'm ready to move on.

Eh, I should've said belly, not stomach.

quote:

You've always been into this dramatic, cliched version of "eXtreme carnal hunting {insert roar here}" that doesn't exist.

But that is how I am. It may not exist for you. It may not exist for most people, but there is something in my brain constantly telling me to rip something to peices. I know I can't and shouldn't, but I want to. It's a spiritual thing. I'm not saying anymore than that.

quote:

Guns, skyscrapers, computers, they're all part of nature.

Maybe, but in my opinion guns are icky.

quote:

Yes, this is true. But what's the point of hunting when you're killing an animal from 100 feet away? What's the point if you can't wring that b*tch's neck and rip its stomach open with your teeth and go into a carnal exctasy as the scent of its blood mingles in your nostrils?

You actually ever rip open something's stomach? I'd like to see you go into esctasy as THAT scent mixes with your nostrils. You've always been into this dramatic, cliched version of "eXtreme carnal hunting {insert roar here}" that doesn't exist.

quote:

Guns aren't nature.

Oh I strongly disagree with you there. Humanity is simply another evolution in life. Our ability to use tools and manipulate our world in new ways is sourced from a naturally evolved trait. I liken it to when animals first evolved hard calcite shells, or the first flying animals. Both manipulated thier environment in ways that had never been seen before, and subsequently became very successful and proliferated, in many cases totally changing the biosphere. They're just like us. Guns, skyscrapers, computers, they're all part of nature. It's just a different and new kind of ecosystem or habitat.

quote:

The answer is fairly simple, we are hunters.

Yes, this is true. But what's the point of hunting when you're killing an animal from 100 feet away? What's the point if you can't wring that b*tch's neck and rip its stomach open with your teeth and go into a carnal exctasy as the scent of its blood mingles in your nostrils?

quote:

Its not bad, its not wrong, its nature.

Guns aren't nature.

A big question being asked is why people hunt. The answer is fairly simple, we are hunters. We may have evolved beyond the need to hunt but we are still hunters. Dogs no longer need to hunt but try telling them that when they see a rabbit. The human mentality has not evolved beyond the primal desire to hunt. Its not bad, its not wrong, its nature. Without this desire we would have died out, so we can't b*tch about it now

Also I read the question, why are there different levels of sympathy for humans and animals. Let me ask you this, why don't all the animals gang together to fight the hunters? Because they have no such concepts. We are sentient, we value the life of our own. Animals don't. One wolf pack won't fight to save another wolf pack. They will fight to save those within there own pack, no others. Thats how we differ, we have sentience and progressive intelligence. Hunting to see something suffer is cruel. But its the hunter, not the sport, that is cruel. The sport has done nothing. Hunting should not be condemned, the hunters who go off to cause suffering should.

quote:

You just feel bad because humans have so many advantages over animals.

Exactly. So many advantages also lead to weakness.

quote:

Oh, and for the love of god I hope all this totem stuff isn't leading you into the realm of furries. *shiver*

Oh hell no. Furries are just a bunch of fat turds with no lives and no concept of animal spirituality. I know that was a generalization, but it's mostly true.

I find it kind of funny that while I was typing this Strangelove by Depeche Mode started playing on my radio. Weird.

quote:

The fact that you can't get off your damn horse, put down your gun and chase your prey the way you were meant to.

EG- You're constant ranting against the use of technology in hunting is really freaking hypocritical. Humans use our intelligence to build tools to give us an advantage, just as the Fox uses it's instinctual cunning to hunt and survive. Your claim that humans should not use complex weapons that we have devised is a double standard.

You want me to build my own weapons with my own hands and knowladge? I can do that. In fact, I can make machine and snare traps that will trap/kill the fox easily. The fact that a gun is used does not make it "cowardly". You just feel bad because humans have so many advantages over animals.

Oh, and for the love of god I hope all this totem stuff isn't leading you into the realm of furries. *shiver*

quote:

I woud like to know what aspect of hunting at full speed on horse back while jumping walls and hedges makes me a "nancy boy".

The fact that you can't get off your damn horse, put down your gun and chase your prey the way you were meant to. That is what makes you a Nancy Boy. Hunting with a gun is the universal definition of weakness and cowardice. Going into the woods and stalking your prey for two days with nothing but a stick and your brain takes everything you obviously lack. Courage, strength, speed, stealth, mental sharpness. You don't learn those things on a horse. If you could kill a fox that way, I could care less what you do with its fur. It shouldn't be that difficult anyway, foxes only weigh like 15-20 pounds.

But if you absolutely must go fox hunting with your nancy-pants gun, try not to get your knickers in a twisty-bunch ol' chap. Pip pip tally-ho.

quote:

Horsey: I had never put down a horse before. We were in Africa and there was no veteranarian with the chemical euthanasia. We had to shoot the horse. Our trainer refused to pull the trigger, I hated to see him in pain so I did it myself. It deeply troubled me for a few weeks and saddens me still. It happened almost a year ago and I've only ridden a few times since.

I too was in a very remote place and had to shoot the horse but luckily for me my dad acctually pulled the trigger.

quote:

She's the granddaughter of Seattle Slew by the way (not to be boasting or anything).

Awesome!!!!

Ok ok, FML and EarthGoddess, lay off eachother will ya. Keep it friendly now!

quote:

Good. You can also think of me when your panties get too tight, nancy boy.

Please elaborate. I woud like to know what aspect of hunting at full speed on horse back while jumping walls and hedges makes me a "nancy boy".

quote:

The fox is too beautiful to be worn on someone's back.

I agree. I would preferr a scarf worn around the neck or a nice lining.

quote:

How does it make you feel to have inspired the killing of one of your "totem animals"?

It makes me feel like you're an idiot with no respect for the Earth and no clear concept of the beauty of mother nature. The fox is too beautiful to be worn on someone's back.

quote:

When I hear that bugle call and hear those hounds howl, I'll think of you.

Good. You can also think of me when your panties get too tight, nancy boy.

quote:

If you meant the fox thing in a correct english sense, then what do you propose the correct word would be in place of people?

Species.

quote:

First of all; "spirit apology", big LOL.
Second; A Fox doesn't have a "people".

Don't tell her what she should believe. She obviously has a different belief system than you do so don't make fun of it.
If you meant the fox thing in a correct english sense, then what do you propose the correct word would be in place of people?

I never thought I'd be defending you EarthGoddess, considering that you attacked my animal rights beliefs almost a year ago on one of the first posts I made, but I totally agree with you here. Especially the strangling part

quote:

I hope a bear eats you. Hunters being eaten by bears is the funniest thing in the world. They deserve it. Anyway,

If I were eaten, it would be ok. The bear and I are each predatory beings. I think him killing me differs very little from me killing him. But you seem to value Raven and moose life above human life.
I hope that when I die it's in a Bear attack or something. Dying of old age is banal. When my great grandchildren ask how I died I would rather them be told of me dying in a Lion attack or a Black Mamba bite while hunting on safari than dying of kidney failure in my sleep while on an organic soy bean farm.

quote:

and I will send its spirit an apology for all the needless slaughter of its people.

First of all; "spirit apology", big LOL.
Second; A Fox doesn't have a "people".

quote:

you're talking about one of my totem animals and that is what makes me so sick to my stomach

Your reaction has inspired me to go Fox hunting this weekend. How does it make you feel to have inspired the killing of one of your "totem animals"? I can't wait to go. When I hear that bugle call and hear those hounds howl, I'll think of you.

quote:

But my fur coat keeps me so warm and toasty that the elements don't have much affect and I keep pretty healthy.

I hope a bear eats you. Hunters being eaten by bears is the funniest thing in the world. They deserve it. Anyway, you're talking about one of my totem animals and that is what makes me so sick to my stomach. I have a fox skull on my dresser (it died of natural causes) and I will send its spirit an apology for all the needless slaughter of its people. My other totems include the Wolf, Raven, Bear, Moose, and Orca. If I saw you harm one of them unneccesarily, I'd strangle you. Actually I don't care what animal it is, I'd still strangle you.

May Gaia's creatures have mercy on your fate. If I sound crazy, fantastic.

quote:

She's the granddaughter of Seattle Slew

Thats awesome! Not that it's as good as a direct decendant like your's but War Patriot was a great nephew of Secretariat, but didn't have the racing moxy. Great jumper and a fine Polo horse but not a racer.

if you use humane (very humane) means, make use of the animal (food, clothes, etc...) and make sure you're not messing with any kind of endangered species, then hunting is ok.

quote:

Yeah, I think he's shot some stray cats too, but since I don't have proof of it (other than their disappearance), I can't call the cops on him.
Is it illegal in PA? Just wondering.
He eats the squirrels too. Weird.

Killing an animal that is not in season without a liscence with a BB gun is illegal in most states, however it's one of those crimes that sort of goes by the wayside.

At least he eats them. I've hunted squirrel (legally), and if you prepare it right it's not bad. But still, knocking off squirrels and stray cats with a BB gun on a regular basis doesn't sit right with me.