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And yes, they don't have the capacity to think about pain in the sense that a human being does...that does not mean, however, that it doesn't feel pain. Pain, after all, is a biological mechanism. In the words of a guy I knew, "Pain is your body's way of saying stop doing that, stupid!'" (Most) Animals don't ruminate on their pain after it stops, but they still feel it and try to avoid it.

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My point is, that if it isn't aware enough to actually care about the pain, then what does it matter? After all, as you said, it's just a bilogical mechanism.

Not conscious? So, animals are actually lying there insensate (i.e. unconscious), and any perceptions we have of them doing things is a hallucination?

Assuming though, that you meant conscious as aware, fine. Most animals are not aware of their own identities or existences (though a few of the higher apes and dolphins actually do; evidence the experiments whereby you paint something on a nonvisible part of the body and it goes and checks it out in a mirror.)

And yes, they don't have the capacity to think about pain in the sense that a human being does...that does not mean, however, that it doesn't feel pain. Pain, after all, is a biological mechanism. In the words of a guy I knew, "Pain is your body's way of saying stop doing that, stupid!'" (Most) Animals don't ruminate on their pain after it stops, but they still feel it and try to avoid it. If they didn't, there likely wouldn't be any animals left. (After all, if they have no way of knowing something is bad for them, how can they avoid it? Thus, they die.)

And just for the record, I don't eat red meat cause it's fuxin' nasty...seriously, have you ever looked at the stuff? Ewwww...

The question isn't weather they can feel pain, but why pain matters in an animal that doesn't have the capacity to worry about it's life and mortality. They don't feel pain just like us. They aren't concious for the most part to care about it.

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BECUASE IT IS LIKE EATING DEATH!

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Who had any idea that death could be so tasty and nourishing?

IT IS TRUE THAT MOST VEGITARIANS DO NOT EAT MEAT BECUASE THEY DO NOT WAN ANIMALS KILLED. BUT OTHER VEGITARIANS SUCH AS MYSELF DO NO EAT MEAT BECAUSE OF THAT BUT ALSO BECUASE IT IS LIKE EATING DEATH! AND JUST BECUASE ANIMALS ARENT THE MOST HIGHLY DEVELOPED MENTALLY, THEY DO FEEL PAIN JUST LIKE US, JUST CUASE THEY CANT DO ALEGEBRA DOESNT MEAN THEY DONT HAVE NERVE ENDINGS!

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Some people are born and don't have any level of higher conciousness, and it's b/c their brains are wired VERY VERY differently and they can't see things the way we do. There for some kill other human beings, torture even, but they can't help it. It's not their fauld, they were born that way and don't u think the type of lives they live matters? Don't they deserve the best life they can have as long as it's not endangering other people.

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If they can't tell that they're living in squalor then I see no problem with them living in aforementioned squalor. Happiness and comfort are not a garaunteed situtations in life. The middle part of your post apparently had something cut out or there was some massive typo, I didn't understand it.

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I'm a vegetarian, but I don't see what everyone's getting so darned aggressive about.

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It might have to do with some of the dumb **** PETA does... PETA just makes me want to eat MORE meat with their pathetic efforts to "save" animals.

"Since they don't have any level of higher conciousness, it doesn't matter what type of lives they live."

Some people are born and don't have any level of higher conciousness, and it's b/c their brains are wired VERY VERY differently and they can't see things the way we do. There for some kill other human beings, torture even, but they can't help it. It's not their fauld, they were born that way and don't u think the type of lives they live matters? Don't they deserve the best life they can have as long as it's not endangering other people.

I'm a vegetarian, but I don't see what everyone's getting so darned aggressive about. What you eat is your own business.
Ok, there are two reasons I am vegetarian:

1) Farming methods - battery hens, cramped conditions, general mistreatment of animals. I wouldn't feel happy eating meat if I thought I was supporting that. As for animal rights - Deagle, how would you know what animals want or need? Have you ever been a pig, huh?

Come on, we're going to eat them, might as well make sure we treat them decently beforehand.

2) I like animals, and I just feel more comfortable not eating them.

But I'm hardly setting out to convert anyone. I don't think eating meat is evil. People have done it forever. ANIMALS eat each other all the time. It's a personal choice. Live and let live, folks…

Bex

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And when some of you said vegitarians get animals killed because of the harvesting of the plants, thats just stupid. we cannot control every little field mouse or bird that gets hurt in the process. im not saying they dont matter, but if we want to keep animals alive i guess it is better them than eating them GRILLED. post your thoughts because id really like to know what you all think.

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Of course it matters. Because your whole reason for being vegitarian is to save animals lives. However, if the entire population were to be vegan, you'd have billions more animals killed do to harvest. And these aren't the reletively clean deaths of the factory farm. They are the slow poisonings, the partial and total dismemberment. That goes for 100% of the animals killed in harvest. Whereas, in a slaughterhouse, it's a very, very small number, i'd be willing to state less than 1%.

What is wrong with grilling them? They're already dead, and they taste better that way.

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95% of the food I eat is meat.

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God have mercy your colon.

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if you lived like that maybe you would say there deaths had more purpose, because they dont live normal lives like they shold

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Since they don't have any level of higher conciousness, it doesn't matter what type of lives they live.

Apparently Deagle has been reading too much Maddox.

Good food, good meat,
Good God, let's eat.

There are some truths on both sides of this issue. Particularly on the vegetarian side, we as a species consume way too much meat; in particular domesticated meat is very bad. Yes we clearly have omnivoric traits showing, I.E. Dentition, the design of stomach etc. But also our stomach is not purely of carnivoric design because if you look at most carnivores, there digestive systems are very short and straight, while our digestive system bends and is very long. But to say that animals were somehow "placed" here for the purpose of providing just us food is completely ignorant.

i was a vegitarian for a full year until my wiccan friend explained that i was still taking life and energy from spirit by just eating plants, and my mum's marinated bbqed chicken was too good.

Depressed WaveMaster

Alright, fairy (I dont give a damn what your name is). We know you're an imbecile, so you can shut up. I didnt say ANYTHING about vegetarians sponsoring the hunts, I said the STATES did, learn to read. Also, animals don't care, all they do is mate and eat, they die anyway. Also, you said animals have filthy living conditions? Idiot! Animals that are bread for food live a life 10 times better than one in the wild. They have food, drink, shelter, that's all an animal wants. I know some vegetarians don't eat meat because they want to lose weight, but thats besides the point. Animal rights is completely moronic, giving animals human rights is stupid. If any of you knew ANYTHING about animals, you would know that wild animals do not live a life of luxary, in fact its much shorter and miserable than the lives they lead for food. In the wild, animals are forced to find food, water and shelter. They often are killed by predators very early in life, and the predators sure as hell dont kill them in a humane way. So grow up, get a life, and shut up.

I agree with Desert, what other purpose do animals have here? They obviously serve as a large food source. What would happen to the animal populations if we stopped eating them all together? They vegetarians should don't want to kill them...
It also is a proven fact that millions of animals are killed in the harvesting of wheat and PETA, so far, has done NOTHING about it. This clearly proves to me PETA only cares about the treatment of animals when it's more convenient to them. PETA also claims that we have canine teeth only for chewing plants, but what plant requires such teeth? You also can't get certain minerals from plants that you can from other animals.

95% of the food I eat is meat.

stock on sushi, if your life's only purpose were:
1. to mate so your kids would be eaten by humans
2. and to live in bad conditions so at the end youd be killed just for food, when theres plenty of vegitation growing everywhere

if you lived like that maybe you would say there deaths had more purpose, because they dont live normal lives like they shold

i agree with desert. it does help their deaths to be more . . . beneficial and useful. but also, not ALL vegetarians dont eat meat cuz they think its wrong to animals, like my godmother and mom dont eat it cuz of health problems, they cant digest it well and they get sick. just thought id throw that in as well.

!.suzy.!

deserteagle, if we could we would harvest our own food, but most of us dont have enough $$ to buy a field of fertile land, and we cant plant things because we have to go to school or work. and we dont sponsor things to hunt down deer and reduce thir population and stuf. maybe thats one vegitarian youve heard of, not most of us! were not the selfish ones. i think you are more because youre eating other innocent creatures that live their whole lives to serve people, cuase in the end they get killed so u could have some pot roast for dinner or something!!

I thought I was getting tired of setting these vegetarians straight. But I'm not, so this is for ALL you vegetarian idiots. Animals were put on the Earth for ONE reason, to eat them. Whats the point of not eating them? "Save the animals so they can EAT!". What other purpose do animals serve? Theyre so damn delicious that I could NEVER stop eating them. In fact, for every animal you dotn eat, I'm going to eat three. Vegetarians are so freakin selfish its not even funny. Well, it is funny, because they're pretty stupid. Vegetarians KNOW, that millions of little animals (rabbits, moles, squirrels, voles, etc.) are cilled in the process of harvesting grains. They KNOW that states often sponsor hunts to cut down on the population of pests (deer, elk, etc.). But they don't care, as long as they say they're trying to help animals, they're ok. If they really cared about animals living, they'd buy their own land and plant their own crops and pick them by hand. But these vegetarians only save animals when its convenient for them. Besides, not eating animals just makes their deaths pointless. There are plenty of animals for you to look at, so shut up and have a heaping serving of meat.

I agree with megsaidso, but I would only stop eatting meat then if everyone did. I like my chicken too much!!!

i know it is true that if the whole world became vegitarian there would be enough plants, but thats not gonna happen anyway. and the same way animals reproduce, so will plants!