I've been vegetarian for the past year and a half for the environment. A week ago, I decided to become vegan. Inconveniently, my family is extremely unsupportive of anything, so I'm tempted to go back to where I started.

I either need a really good excuse to tell people for going back, or a really compelling reason to stay vegan.


>.<

I agree with clpo13. I don't have a problem with people eating meat, despite my being a vegiterian. But such large, un-needed amounts of meat that people, (mainly americans, sorry) eat and kill is what I don't like. And I find it wrong how people look away from how their meat is killed, and how it is treated as it lives. That's what bugs me. I'm a digniterian. (dignity-y + [vegiterian-vegi] = digniterian, HAHAHA) GO FREE RANGE-NESS!!! AND ORGANIC!!!!

when I take over the world, I will fix this problem. Don't worry, no one will be forced to be vegiterian, but there will be a healthy limit to meat, and I shalll over- see how it has been treated. (I'll also get rid of Hummers, but that's a different story) My friend has already been appointed vice-dictator, apologies. You may have a chance to be in congress, though. HA HA HA!
Yes, I know. I'm crazy. But I'm right.

The line, TypAsmith, is drawn between necessary and unnecessary cruelty. Obviously, there are those who would consider it cruel to put an animal to death in the first place. I don't feel that way because that death has purpose: it feeds people. However, going a step farther in abusing an animal about to die is completely unnecessary; it accomplishes nothing.

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I read on nytimes.com that there arethree men bein sued for animal cruelty. Ironically, this cruelty took place at a slauterhouse!! The men were video taped shooting water up the cows noses etc. I can even wrap my head around this. Apparently the law suit caused the beef industry to recall massive amounts of their meat supply.

Yes, this is not new news. It happened several weeks ago. It's not unusual for animal cruelty to happen in slaughter house. It happens often. But this case resulted in such a massive recall because these 'downer cattle', which were mainly the cattle being abused, may have had mad cow dicease, and are supposed to be euthinized. But this slaughter house abused the cattle to stand on thier feet so they could pass inspection, this way they wouldn't lose money. But, they got caught, and it cost them more money. Still, much of this recalled meat was already in school lunch programs by the time it was recalled.

I have already made a forum on this, it's called 'meat recall 2008'. It's under environment, I think. You can post there.

I read on nytimes.com that there arethree men bein sued for animal cruelty. Ironically, this cruelty took place at a slauterhouse!! The men were video taped shooting water up the cows noses etc. I can even wrap my head around this. Apparently the law suit caused the beef industry to recall massive amounts of their meat supply.

First of all, how can anyone feel good about eating something that represent the brutality of mankind? And second of all, how can the government be so hypocitical...turning thei backs on these acts when they are makin profit off it, then saying well maybe you should do THAT.
WHo draws the line.. and where?!
...reactions?

here is a "starter" book for going vegan. There are recipes and why a person should be vegan. Hope this helps and good luck with your choice...it's a hard one.

http://www.petaliterature.com/VEG297.pdf

they also use trucks for the cattle that are too injured or sick to travel the distance by drives. this is especially true of the veal calves that are even too weak to stand on their hooves steadily.

Hi, sorry I haven't posted. I was really busy this week! But I did manage to do some research. And, yes you were right, but so was I! I found that cattle drives still happen in some places, and in others cattle are taking in trailers, like were I live. They can't drive cattle through suburban areas, so they take them on trailers. In other places, it makes sense to drive cattle. But that is not the case were I live, and to me, it's disheartening.

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Originally posted by clpo13:

Because, most of the time, those people are anal towards meat eaters. I've been attacked way too often because I choose to eat a ham sandwich over a tofu burger. You may not be one of those people, but it still happens.

I can see where you're coming from and I agree that some vegans can be too aggressive about the whole diet thing. We at times also get attacked for eating a tofu burger rather than a ham sandwich (fyi.....vegans don't rely on tofu burgers, thats just an old misconception. I had a lovely soy chicken burger last night with soy bacon, vegan mayo and vegan cheese...yum!)

Although I'm not one of them, I can see why they would come across that way. Sometimes I've written on other forums and it comes across as being aggro or moralistic, even tho that wasn't my intention.

(Don't take this as a sympathy thing, just stating a vegan perspective, thats all): But everytime someone finds out you're a vegan you get the whole "what do you eat jibe" and the whole protein and nutrition gip as if meat and animal by-products fulfils all your nutritional needs. Most people ask valid questions then start picking the negatives of our choice and you do end up having to explain your diet. Perhaps, some vegans just get sick of having to validate their choices and want you guys to validate yours at times. just an idea.

You must remember that we live in a animal reliant, meat promoting culture. You guys don't see or feel it because it is what you have accepted and believe to be the 'right' way to live. You don't see the multibillion advertisments and subtle messages that push meat consumption, or products that rely on animal vivisection, or even certain fashion sectors etc. We can't even go down to the shopping centre (malls to you), and get a quick and easy meal that doesnt have meat or animal-by products in it. I have had mates that eat meat and just don't get what I mean, so I get them to go vegan for a couple of days and by the end of it they understand exactly how animal-relient they are, and are more respectful of our situation.

I know its our choice and we need to deal with it, and we do, but sometimes it can lead to some people being frustrated.

As summed up by this joke: How many animal rights activists and vegans does it take to change a light bulb? None, because they can't change anything.

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Originally posted by clpo13:

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why is is that the people who are supporters of meat production and consumption always have to be so anal towards those that are at least TRYING to reduce suffering, environmental destruction on any scale, or unfair trading and production?

Because, most of the time, those people are anal towards meat eaters. I've been attacked way too often because I choose to eat a ham sandwich over a tofu burger. You may not be one of those people, but it still happens.

the same could be said of you lot too. so let's agree to disagree. both sides stereotype. its a human fault.

In my opinion and that of the accumulating research and data in support, vegans are having less of an impact on the environment based on their diet. i'm not trying to sound 'superior', but i'm not naive. of course land is cleared (like your favourite soya-amazon example - *yawn*), and animals (if you think insects as animals), are either killed or displaced, but it doesn't change the fact that MORE land is cleared and WAY MORE animals are killed, and MORE methane released into the environment because of livestock production. Furthermore, the whole transport thing- think of how much less transport and resources would be used if animal by products weren't refrigerated and transported.

Try not to appear that you care about the number of animals killed, or the amount of resources used, the amount of waste and pollutants created, or even the amount of land cleared. the simple fact is that meat production kills MORE animals, uses just as much, perhaps more resources (aka the dairy industry's water consumption, meat refrigeration, abbatoir operation, waste disposal etc), produces more methane emmision into the atmosphere through cattle, and causes more land clearing for BOTH animal grazing and PLANT production for animal feed.

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why is is that the people who are supporters of meat production and consumption always have to be so anal towards those that are at least TRYING to reduce suffering, environmental destruction on any scale, or unfair trading and production?

Because, most of the time, those people are anal towards meat eaters. I've been attacked way too often because I choose to eat a ham sandwich over a tofu burger. You may not be one of those people, but it still happens.

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Originally posted by notsojoey:
Clpo, I was just hasseling you. I was hoping the hear the Vegans try to explain their crazy theory on how animals today are super animals compared to past animals.

wouldn't necessarily call them"super" animals. i think that's the wrong term. in the sense they are not so much the same as past animals of the same species, because genetic modification, hormone use and the like is used in modern animal agriculture.

throw in the genetic research of combining the genetic material across species, (such as merging cow genes with pigs....a sickening idea), as well as a reduction of biodiversity in certain species, food animals are not like their ancestors at all. and it's not evolution or natural at all, it is human science.

why is is that the people who are supporters of meat production and consumption always have to be so anal towards those that are at least TRYING to reduce suffering, environmental destruction on any scale, or unfair trading and production? at least it is SOMETHING. get over it and just accept the fact that there are people out there trying to do something rather than nothing. i'm a vegan and i don't claim a moral superiority or place myself as being 'better' than any1 else. people aren't perfect- whether you eat meat or not.

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But if you are not trying to be smart, then do you reallly think that walk cattle hundreds of miles from farms to slaughter?

That is what I am telling you and it is the truth. Sorry if the truth is so incovient for your argument.

They have a tendency to do that.

you are all getting on my nerves.

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Originally posted by horseartistgrl27:
WHAT?!?! If you are trying to be smart by saying 'the cows have to walk down a kill line to get to the actual building' then stop. I know that. But if you are not trying to be smart, then do you reallly think that walk cattle hundreds of miles from farms to slaughter? Maybe a hundred years ago they came in cattle drives, but now they come on trailers.

No, don't you understand? You cannot move 5000 cows on trailers. The most effective way to move them long distances is still...GASP...cattle drives.

WHAT?!?! If you are trying to be smart by saying 'the cows have to walk down a kill line to get to the actual building' then stop. I know that. But if you are not trying to be smart, then do you reallly think that walk cattle hundreds of miles from farms to slaughter? Maybe a hundred years ago they came in cattle drives, but now they come on trailers.

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I've seen some with 50 small cattle and I've seen some with about 20 large cattle.

I'm willing to admit you have seen cows on a trailer; however, the overwhelming cows that go to slaughter get there by walking.

I've seen some with 50 small cattle and I've seen some with about 20 large cattle. I know that they loaded 50 horses on the same type of trailer (which is illegal, I know), who weigh 1,000-2,000 lbs once. The trailers are meant to carry as many cattle as they can hold, even if that means jamming the cattle in until those cattle are standing shoulder to shoulder, side by side.

How I do wish that thier was a way for everyone to grow thier own food, have a job, and not need to have things shipped across oceans, I'm not stupid, Bushsupporter. I'm not irrational. I'm not crazy in the head (well, maybe a little bit). I know that those things can no longer happen today. I know that the world is terrible, and that cuelty will always happen. I know that things are shipped across oceans, and that I currently can't change. But my name means ambisous, and that's what I am.

I wish that things don't have to be shipped across oceans, land, etc. But as I said earlier, I can't change that (yet, that is, MAWAHAHAHA). But what I can do is boycott non-fair-trade stuff. And if that means I don't get apples or mangos in the middle of winter, so what? I am happy with canned peaches and home-made apple sause. I have overly strong oppinions for my age, so what? Build a bridge and get over it. (just don't dump you're trashing in the water while crossing ) I don't hate the earth, I just see it as something that needs change, and ifI need to make that change, so be it!! (ok I'm finished, I'll get back on track from now on.)

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But have you seriously never seen those double-decker trailers with 50 or so cattle on them?

No, I have never seen a trailer carrying 50 cattle to slaughter. If the cows each weighed 700 pounds there weight would be 35,000 pounds but if the cows weighed 1,000 pounds, more realistic, there weight would be 50,000 pounds. I highly doubt you have ever seen a trailer with 50 cows on it and I think you are just exagerating to make your flawed point. Perhaps you saw 50 sheep.