quote:

I may add from Peta:

you have just ruined any and all credability you might have once had

exit this thread and return to your salad

I hope that was sarcastic, because it gives those of us who actually believe that a bad image.

Eh?

Plants are living things too! just cause they dont move or have a brain doesn't make it ok to eat them! revolt! stop eating plants! they have feelings too...they just dont have mouths to tell u about it.

Meat-free meals are all right every so often. But there's no way I could live off of them. I didn't get my body eating lima beans and tofu.

I may be able to live without meat but that doesn't mean I want to. I'll eat whatever (and whoever) I damn well please. Because I can.

Paragraphs are your friends, yo.

Also: the suffering makes meat extra delicious. Despair tastes like gravy. Sweet, sweet pain-gravy.

I may add from Peta:

"For all the good he's done for the environment—which, to be fair, is an awful lot—Al’s leaving out a huge piece of the puzzle by ignoring the fact that the devastation caused by the meat industry is among the worst environmental disasters ever to happen to the world. As we told him in our letter, sent earlier this week:
While the steps that you urge people to take in An Inconvenient Truth are inarguably important, the quickest and most effective way to fight climate change will come through diet change.
An inconvenient truth for him, maybe, but it’s the truth nonetheless. Since he might not have seen the recent U.N. reports on the subject, we pointed out to him that animals raised for food generate more greenhouse gases than all cars and trucks combined, and that (according to a recent University of Chicago study), switching to a vegan diet is more effective in countering global warming than switching from a standard American car to a Prius. We've also offered to cook him some faux "fried chicken" as an introduction to meat-free meals, since, however many documentaries you make, you just can't be a meat-eating environmentalist. I'll let you know if he gets back to us."

Chew on that for a while.

Wow. The difference between a wolf killing something in the wild, and humans eating factory farmed animals stewing in their own faeces, is that the wolf has taken something that had FREEDOM. I don't have a problem with eating meat. I have a problem in meat manufacturing, the poor treatment of animals, and animals that are killed and thrown away, which does not need to exist. Yes, hooray, humans were created with the OPTION of eating meat. Pollution is everywhere, but when you think about all the deforestation that occurs to cope with our cattle farming, you have to be able to at least have the thought capacity of the food that needs to be grown just to feed these animals. The amount of land it takes for vegans to survive off plants isn't even worth comparing. And I love this survival of the fittest nonsense because everyone likes to use it when it suits his or her needs. It's funny when an animal kills a human, and then we have the audacity to find that same animal and kill it for a sick sense of justice. Your version of survival of the fittest equals hypocrisy. A gang robs/rapes a woman on the street, is that also survival of the fittest? Lastly, being intelligent and eating meat are not connected in any way, shape or form, so I suggest the least you can do is regurgitate facts. Hinduism has created one of the finest cultures in the world and is the oldest extant religion, and lots of modern medicine has come from these people. Guess what, they don’t eat meat! So go ahead, sit down with your nice piping hot serving of mad cow and a side of bird flu, and talk to me then about intelligence. The world is a shitty place, something we can agree on, but there is no need to make it more shitty.


EDIT: trebligrachel, please keep the hostilities down. There's no call for saying things like that.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GreenMod,

Booyah.

Also, humans evolved eating meat. We've been eating it for hundreds of thousands of years. The massive amounts of protein and fat in meat is what helped feed our growing brains. I kinda have the feeling Vegans and Vegetarians are "Devovling". How else can they be so increbidly stupid when it comes to natural facts?

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The difference is we have the biological capabilities to not eat meat, and we have the intelligence to understand suffering.

We have the biological capabilities to not eat meat because we're... OMNI-FUCKING-VORES!!!!!111. Wolves understand suffering very well, but they don't bitch and moan and get all whiny about it, because they rock. They know that they have to kill to survive. That's just the harshness of nature. There are predators and there are prey. The prey are here for a reason... To be eaten.

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Do you really think you have the right to take a life just to suit your stomach?

Yep. I've seen more than enough animal slaughterhouse vids and pictures. Yet, I still eat meat. Why? Because dead animals make me hungry. And I'm not a pussy. Nature is not sunshine and rainbows. I've said this a million times already and I'll say it again, Humans are NOT above nature. Ever. Intelligence does not mean we are the protectors of the Earth and it's creatures. It just means we can kill and eat animals more efficiently.

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So why is it exceptable to have a hierarchy of what animals are okay to eat and not to eat?

Dogs and cats evolved with us as companion animals. They have a purpose. To herd sheep, protect the house, kill the mice, or to aid in hunting. Domesticated cows, pigs, sheep, chickens, etc, have no other purpose than to be eaten. Humans have been raising and breeding these animals for 30+ thousand years for the sole purpose of eating them.

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Are you not an animal yourself and do you not believe that you are entitled to a certain quality of life?

Yes, I am an animal. I'm an animal that feeds on other animals. Hooray nature!

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Or do you think animals are here just to be used/abused by humans?

Animal abuse is disgusting and should be admonished. I'd much rather see cows and whatnot being raised in a safe and clean environment and killed quickly, before they even know what happened.

I think we should learn from the Japanese in the way they care for their Kobe cattle. The give them massages for crying out loud.

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Walk one day in a cow's shoes, and wake up.

You wake up. Nature is not and will never be a perfect place. It is cruel in its ways. You need to get your head away from this deluded "Garden of Eden" mindset. Animals will die. Their blood and their bodies fertilized the earth and your vegetables for billions of years. And that will continue. So what if our eating meat causes pollution. The Earth can and will correct itself over time. Even if that means mass extinction.

The only way you can truly help the environment is to not have children and then kill yourself. Your very extistence and the fact that you're using a computer in a house/building, means you've contributed to the senseless annilation of animals and the emission of pollutants (You didn't think computers grew on trees did you?). You also eat plant matter, most likely farmed plant matter. Even more animals are displaced and killed to create farmland, so you can eat your precious veggies. Everywhere you go and everything you do, contributes to the destruction of the environment. So, in reality, where most of us tend to live, you're no better than us meat-eating vultures.

Enjoy your soybeans.

I think Tool's "Disgustipated" would fit perfectly in this conversation. "This is neccesary. Life feeds on life, feeds on life, feeds on life."

My general response is

"I and generations of my forefathers did not crawl up to the top of the food chain to eat ruffage now fuck off"

God, I hate vegans...

I think being vegan is a great way to help the environment. Of course it perhaps isn't necessary, and being vegetarian, or even cutting down on consuming products that rely on the exploitation of animals is ultimately benefitical, especially when you look at how much energy it takes to grow a cow, then to package it up, for it to be wasted and thrown away because we over supply our grocery stores. People who say eating a cow is no more cruel than say a wolf or any other wild animal killing its prey is living life with their heads in the sand. The difference is we have the biological capabilities to not eat meat, and we have the intelligence to understand suffering. Do you really think you have the right to take a life just to suit your stomach? At the end of the day, it all ends up in the toilet, so why not eat something that doesn't have a pulse? Would you eat a dog or a cat? So why is it exceptable to have a hierarchy of what animals are okay to eat and not to eat? Are you not an animal yourself and do you not believe that you are entitled to a certain quality of life? Why not extend that equality to animals? Or do you think animals are here just to be used/abused by humans? If you believe in democracy, which revolves around the basic principle of choice, then you would agree that animals should have a choice to be free animals, and not bound to a life of slavery just to make a stupid hamburger. If you are okay living life without asking questions and following whatever theories that make you sleep well at night, then your not a true believer of democracy, which is seeing through the many facets of life, not just your own eyes. Walk one day in a cow's shoes, and wake up.

Although there are many very good reasons to become vegan, rather than asking others for a reason convincing enough to compell your parents, you should ask yourself "why is this important to me, and why do I want to do it?" Those answers are the ones you should tell your parents. It is hard for the older generation to accept things like this at first, so just be patient with them. I've been vegan for 3 years and my parents didn't accept it at first, but I kept with it and they began to accept it. When I started I wrote them an essay giving many reasons why I wanted to make this lifestyle choice.

If you can't convince your parents right away, then maybe just keep being vegetarian for now, and come back to veganism when your a little older and can buy your own grocerys and stuff (maybe you do that now, I don't know).

As far as having a reason to go back, do really don't owe anyone a reason. People try things out all the time but don't stick with it. People constantly tell me that they were vegetarian for a week, or month, and I don't judge them for not sticking with it. If anyone asks you, you can just say that it didn't work out for you, and you might give it a try later down the road.

Okay, my dad hates the fact that I'm a vegetarian. He's being supportive of me though. He has told me that he would rather me eat meat in small amounts then be completely vegetarian. What he means by that is to stay away from meat as much as possible, but if I eat it, it's maybe one meal a day and the amount is so small, I can barely taste it.
I would suggest the same to you, but like in anything, you need to follow what you think is right. Not your parents.

Meat is only unhealthy when eaten in large amounts (anything in moderation is good). It only causes disease when improperly cooked. Fat is good for you. And finally, life is cruel. Animals have been eating other animals for as long as life has existed, so killing a cow and cooking it's flesh is no more cruel than if a wolf had taken it down and torn out its throat while it was still breathing.

lets see, meat is unhealthy, causes tons of diseases, is full of fat, and most importantly, to me at least, it is unnessicarily cruel to animals. those are a few reasons i have off the top of my head

Being a Vegan shouldn't be about other people, its your choice, if you chose it then learn about it first or it will be too difficult.
Vegan for the environment is great, if you feel as though you can't get your dairy and egg intake naturally, if you feel like you can then you don't need to be. Free range and organic isnt always enough for some people.

But definately take part in other conservations, dont just stop at your diet, your diet is a great addition.

From my point of view, as a vegan, it's totally worth it, the food is great

Well not that much you can do in relation to things like the television or their cars, perhaps, but still a lot you can do personally. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I'm told that the little things (paper bags over plastic, walking or using public transportation, etc.) can add up in the long run.

Hmm; carbon footprint. I need to stop thinking about how weird it is that I forgot a bout that phrase, considering how often I watch An Inconvenient Truth.

The problem is, I live with three other people, and when I try to fix the whole murdering the planet thing, they get defensive and gang up on me - like they're destroying tyranny in our household or something. So basically, I can't see much that I can do.

An easier way to help the environment is to reduce your carbon footprint. Plant a tree. Unplug the television. Carpool. All better options than abstaining from meat-eating, especially if that's not working out for you. The problem with being vegan is that while you're not eating any animal products, other people still are.

But as Maya said, you don't need to have a reason to go back to being vegetarian (if that's what you mean by going back to where you started). You just do it. If people wonder, just tell them you felt like that option was better. That reminds me of a girl I knew who was once vegan. One day, she just up and decided to eat a sloppy joe sandwich. It was kind of funny, but no one really cared what food she ate or why.