It's not about forcing their religion on people

its about giving people an opportunity if they have questions or need someone to turn to. Most missionaries now dont force anything on anyone. They go and help teach or help build houses and such and lead by example. If people ask them about it then they share what they know.And missionaries work all over the world, in every city. Not just in "poor africa."

My best friend Josh was a missionary for 4 years, until he came upon a revelation while in Peru. A bus got caught in a large mud puddle and overturned, destroying the bus and a large amount of fellow missionaries. Clothes, books, and everything ruined while wading out of the mud, the bus sank and they spent the rest of the next couple days contacting relatives, praying, and trying to clean up the mess.

They genuinely believed it was Satan's doing, trying to stop them from 'spreading the word.' They called out for God to help them, to bring them back to town safely, and fight the forces of evil. After they got back to Lima, the town they were staying in, they found out from a police patrol that there was another mud puddle up the road, that if they hit, would have propelled them off of a cliff, surely to kill everyone in the bus.

Instantly the bus crash was no longer Satan's fault, but God's will. A blessing that saved their lives. It reminded him exactly of 1984, where history would change on a whim. First the work of Satan, and then God, and the missionaries just believed whatever they were told like mindless sheep. It was a flash of insight that caused him to doubt the faith.

That caused him to quit being a missionary, and for the next year when he got home, pore over all the religious texts he owned trying to regain the faith he once had. It never came.

Now he is an atheist.

I really don't like missionaries, for the most part. There are some exceptions, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by toughshorty:
I hate missionaries. I don't think they are orientated at helping the sick and such, I think they are colonialist and all they really want to do is destroy cultures that have existed long before christianity in the name of "helping the poor africans who can't help themselves" I think that it's great to help other nations. But you should go there to aid them to become independent on their own terms. Not exactly like the west.

Stop the "Church Trips"!!!

discuss...

Missionaries try to help everyone who doesn't know about God's word. But if someone doesn't want any thing to do with christianity nobody is forcing them to join or to accept their help
mandy231

The many peoples of Polynesia prior to the arrival of the Europeans in the 18th century: the Maori, the Hawaiians, the Tongans, the natives of Fiji, the Chathams, the Societies...all these cultures developed on their own quite well for 3,200 years without European religions. In fact, it's quite clear that those cultures are no longer as powerful as they once were. The Tongans and Hawaiians ruled over empires composed of their respective archipelagos. Now I doubt the average person knows where Tonga is or that Hawaii was once known for more than flowered shirts and shave ice.

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfie:
i'm talking about random tribes on scattered islands that are independent as in they have their own basic needs met and are generally happy with their culture.

do you know of any? please do tell. I am curious. And I am not being sarcastic.

i'm talking about random tribes on scattered islands that are independent as in they have their own basic needs met and are generally happy with their culture.

quote:

they've been independent for how many hundreds of years? why would they need help (aka relgious preaching) now?

Which countries have been "independent for how many hundreds of years"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa

Look under "Colonialism and the "scramble for Africa""
Ironically, the only two that were independent (since 19th century) were Black American colony, and Orthodox Christian Abyssinia

to me tribes in africa or pacific islands don't really need as much help as most believe. think about it... they've been independent for how many hundreds of years? why would they need help (aka relgious preaching) now?

quote:

Originally posted by toughshorty:
I hate missionaries. I don't think they are orientated at helping the sick and such, I think they are colonialist and all they really want to do is destroy cultures that have existed long before christianity in the name of "helping the poor africans who can't help themselves" I think that it's great to help other nations. But you should go there to aid them to become independent on their own terms. Not exactly like the west.

Stop the "Church Trips"!!!

discuss...

how can it destroy the whole culture?

if you had done some more research in this...yes, there were cases where people were forced into a new religion (how did the Islam faith got so many believers in just a few years after the Prophet Mohammed [p.b.u.h] got his relevation?) ...but there has been cases where people included the religion with their past beliefs...just look at Eastern Europe...you still hear rumours of "Baba Yaga" existing (an old witch who eats children) in spite that it was part of the pagan religion...

would u like to be part of a culture who sacrificed people? Any culture is fine as long as it doesn't harm anyone/anything.

Most of the people we get banging on our doors (mostly for the somewhat obscure Christian religions) will go away after I tell them that I'm a practicing Catholic.

According to my mom, all they really care about is that you HAVE a religion...interesting...

quote:

Originally posted by toughshorty:
The problem is your assumption that it is "the truth" By presenting this as "the absolute truth" And by backing this up with the implied power of your god with things like food and medicine you are ruining a beautiful culture.

Sure, you don't say, do this or you will starve. It's not what you do, so much as what you imply. It's not your group of missionaries but the idea of missionaries as a whole. They go to "spread the truth" to the poor unknowing africans.

That imperialist, colonialist mentality is what is wrong with missionaries. They go somewhere to put in place what they think is what should be right and spread the "truth."

I will attempt an analogy, A child is the best artist in his class, he is brilliant for a kindergardener, but you know, this means that he is sort of crappy by the rest of the world standards. Now, the kids parents are brilliant scientists, they want this child to grow up to be a scientist. So they take away all of his paints and crayons and tells him to go play with a chemistry set...

Now, who's right in this situation??? the parent who wants their kid to grow up and study this highly successful, or the kid that just wants to paint and is good at it???

I don't know all the answers, and clearly, there will always be a debate, but I side with the kid.

Alright, first let me say that that anaogy had absolutely nothing to do with your original topic and did nothing to help your point, the people that these people missionary to don't have anything that comapres to a paint set in this analogy, not to say they have no culture, but to to be in the situation where one need missionary aid, lets say they don't have the bare nessecities, so to say that this child (who are in the place where people are being helped by missionaries) is the best artist in the class has no baring on the point of unpriviliged kids, they can't be the best or even have the potencial if they don't have the tools for such.

Now when it come to the imperialism point, let me say that, I think you are absolutely wrong again, real colonialists would be staking claim on lands and forcing people to comply with there beliefs look up the history to the america's and the and any other colonized place, placing missionaries in that category is a bald lie. Missionaries are sacrificing there own lives and there own well being for thier cuase, not yours, not there countries and not the lives of the people the missionary to. I don't see a common ground for imperialism except for the point of skipping from country to country, in that case all business men and exchange students would be imperialists.

Back to your original point, who are yo to judge? Are you helping

quote:

"helping the poor africans who can't help themselves"

?

I think that good is good, and unless you can do better, why criticize progress? Humans helping other humans in the name of :Allah, Jehovah, Budda ect... is much better than people standing around watching other people suffer and doing nothing.

Hey you, come here, come closer, that's it.

missionaires are basically people who help the less fortunate if the less fortunate believe what they say. missionaires come to a foreign country and shove their beliefs down the locals throat and most of their donations go right into the "missionaires" pockets. i dont like missionaires either i think they prey on peoples shame and try to guilt us into donating money to them well they aint fooling me!

quote:

Originally posted by toughshorty:
I hate missionaries. I don't think they are orientated at helping the sick and such, I think they are colonialist and all they really want to do is destroy cultures that have existed long before christianity in the name of "helping the poor africans who can't help themselves" I think that it's great to help other nations. But you should go there to aid them to become independent on their own terms. Not exactly like the west.

Stop the "Church Trips"!!!

discuss...

Yes, absolutely. Damn them for helping the less fortunate!

Unfortunately, "most of the missionaries I've met" and blanket assertions about missionaries in general don't actually prove anything about missionaries. In fact, they only serve to reveal that you can't be bothered at all to do a bit of research into the groups you are so valiantly trashing. Not to be redundant in echoing what practically everyone else has said, but you can't honestly think that missionaries are colonialist pigs who could care less about the indigenous populations they visit? Wait, no, I know the answer to that.

Well, let's consider this. The "beautiful culture" that these missionaries are "ruining" is often a war-torn, famine-plagued, starving corner of the globe that all the great benevolence of the rest of the world seems to have forgotten. Historically, Christian missionaries have "ruined" cultural practices such as human sacrifice, and, even as late as 1780 in India, widow-burning (Source: Wikipedia).

To deny that these missionaries have not been instrumental in clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, as well as bringing such concepts as sustainable farming, basic hygiene and sanitation, and modern technology to impoverished areas of the globe is to deny historical fact. Or would allowing people to live and make an honest living be too colonialist?

The glorious idea of "independence on their own terms" in Africa often means arming up to go kill some other subculture that you have a problem with. Do the Hutus and the Tutsis come to mind? The problem is that we already screwed up by colonizing the place in the 1700-1800s. The answer isn't to just say, "Oh, they can do this on their own." Because all empirical evidence would suggest the contrary. And I don't frankly care if it's the Southern Baptist Convention, Episcopal Relief and Development, the Satanist League of America, the U.N., or the U.S. that's getting aid over there, as long as aid is getting over there.

If abuses such as conditional aid are occurring (and they have in rare circumstances), then that is atrocious and should stop. But missionary work at large often does not imply evangelism. And quite frankly if you think you're going to convert people en masse from an ethnic belief system they have held for ages and destroy their culture by having a rally and handing out some rice, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you'd be interested in buying...

When my chemistry teacher was in grade school during WWII, this German missionary came to her school to teach them songs about Jesus and so on. They really loved her.

Then, they found out she was actually a Nazi spy. She was caught in New York while trying to return to Germany with information about a nuclear plant. She got the electric chair.

quote:

seriously, I despise missionaries. I think they are scum who ruin everything in an attempt to do good. If you want to do something good, don't do it thru your church!!!

ok, i'm guession you've only met the bible beaters, and let me say, i'm sorry.

you've used the term "missionary" and attached some hard acusations to the word without meeting every missionary.

true story: i went to New Orleanse on a mission trip just a few weeks ago. I DIDN'T DO ANY PREACHING. i gutted houses, picked up trash, and handed out suplies in the lower 9th.

i'm and Anglo-Catholic, so i'm a lot different than the more caresmatic christians who only want to shove the bible down people's throats. St. Francis of Assisi once said, "preach the gospel alsway; when neccisary, use words" thats what i try to live my life by: showing (not telling) the love of Christ to everyone--no stings attached. i try to help people both through the church and on my own--whenever i see that help is needed. i dont always succeed in this, but i try.

anyways, i'm sorry that that's the only kind of missionary you've seen. and i agree with you. but dont stop the "church trips" if they're really helping people.

Most of the missionaries I have met are very close to what ts described - they're only about religion and "spreading God's word". I had a friend who just went for the good of it, not so much because he was religious, and came back VERY different (his concept of faith).

and now you've heard it on YN

hmm...I don't know that I have ever heard it used except in old movies and books...

I couldn't think of a better word.

I've said it in real life, it's a fairly useful term