| Find, explore and network a cause. |
|
Go  |
New |
Find |
Notify |
|
Reply |
|
Admin |
New PM! |
Registered: March 04, 2006
Posts: 9
|
hiiii
|
Registered: March 04, 2006
Posts: 9
|
hiiiii
|
Registered: March 04, 2006
Posts: 9
|
quote: Originally posted by Vivgirl:
[lol
|
Registered: March 04, 2006
Posts: 9
|
[lol
|
Registered: November 05, 2004
Posts: 6008
|
I'm more with hubb in this. No true advances for the "rights" of women have been done since the original movement in the early 20th century. These days, we make a big deal about the first female head cook at the White House. That's nothing special; it just means women can cook, which is really no surprise at all.
The more you know, the less you don't know.
|
Registered: February 10, 2006
Posts: 1881
|
quote: Originally posted by Euterpe:
Shorty, it's wicked hard to take you seriously when you use the "womyn" word. That's a made-up feminist bullshit word made by uninformed women who don't understand where the name of the gender comes from.
Well Euterpe, speaking of being uniformed. You just conflated sex and gender. Further, to be honest, very informed feminist scholars use that spelling. Further, tracing the origins of the word can go back in atleast 3 directions that I know of. Some people say it's latin, some people say what you say, and some people discuss the bible. All of the above are different origins. I understand perfectly many of the different beliefs about the spelling.
MN debater, AIM me, I'm probably on and I'm probably bored... toughgirldb8r
|
Registered: September 29, 2004
Posts: 3690
|
Shorty, it's wicked hard to take you seriously when you use the "womyn" word. That's a made-up feminist bullshit word made by uninformed women who don't understand where the name of the gender comes from. quote: I find that very interesting. I didn't know that. I love linguistics. Of course, still it's not even pronounced womyn when you say it correctly.
Lol, man, I know. Womyn pisses me off. quote: No, I think after we got the right to vote, equal pay (which we have...actually women get paid more in many jobs now) came as a natural after-effect. I don't think it needed to be fought for. With the right to vote, we showed the men that we aren't the airheads they thought us to be. We showed that yes, we could weigh out pros and cons. Yes, we could make our own decisions.
Being content with the right to vote is giving up. The ability to vote in an established democracy isn't a privilege. It's a right. As for equal pay, no, we do not have that. It's true that in some occupations (police officers, teachers, etc.) there is equality, in the corporate world? This is not the case. I searched so I could get you an unbiased source about it. So you can go here to see what I'm talking about. quote: And then a bunch of feminists, set on being feminists, burnt their bras. I know people who did it.
I'm not saying that didn't. But it's not as if they made it up. They thought it was funny. quote: If I were Broadhurst, I would think, "I have made a difference in the world. I can save many people from a deathly disease." Not "I have showed those low men up."
Again, you're thinking in terms of the stereotypical feminist. She is a feminist because she believed in women's rights, and though science is a male-dominated field (especially then) she trucked through. That makes her an incredible person, and a feminist. No real feminist meets her goals and goes, "Ha, male species." Radical feminists do, and we all know they should perish. quote: They were making difference in the world. I don't respect them for what they did for "Women's Rights."
That's unfortunate. quote: All those benefitting by the work of our mothers' mothers.
Not those women who are presidents of foreign countries. They are not benefitting from *our* feminist movement of yore. They blazed a trail of their own, which makes them feminists. You've got to get it out of your head that a feminist is a hard-headed, anti-male, spiteful woman. It's a woman who accomplishes something no one (male or female) said she could do. I don't belive women should be put in separate categories. I'm merely saying that a feminist comes in all forms. From someone like me, who enjoys chivalry, football and the color pink, to someone like Sandra Day O'Connor or Angelina Jolie.
A lo hecho, pecho.
|
Registered: February 10, 2006
Posts: 1881
|
Euterpe, thank you, you have said basically what I was going to say. I'm simply going to back it up by saying that Hubba, it's simply not tru that all feminists are the same. There are so many different kind of feminists. From 3 different waves of feminism, to 3rd world feminism, to ecological feminism to about a million other. Saying, "I am a feminist" is close to saying, "I am a christian" b/c there are SO many different kinds of christianity... and so many ways to think about things. That's how feminism is. The other thing you need to think about is that you are dismissing an entire movement based off of a few radicals that took it to far. Is every movement automatically bad just b/c of a few radicals? Should we all stop believing in a higher power b/c there are people in the church who think god wants them to beat themselves? It's the same thing, they took their faith further than the norm, but we all know everyone doesn't do that. Every movement has a few radicals. It happens, and that's simply not a reason to reject all feminists. I'm sorry for claiming you didn't know something. I didn't mean to offend you. I have an unprecedented amount of knowledge on feminism and am a feminist. But I bet that my saying that makes you have a few myths about me. I'll try and displace them. I am only one feminist tho, so don't put the label of me on Euterup for example, she could be different of she could be the same. I don't know... myth one: I would imagine you believe I support affirmative action: This is simply not tru of many feminists actually I feel that affirmative action does many damaging things such as reinforcing gender roles and ultimately endangering people in some cases (such as if they become fire fighters and can't lift up a person to carry them out) One of my favorite sayings about that is, "affirmative action is like koolaide, you throw in womyn and stir. Myth 2: I hate men/burn bras/am a lesbian: NOT AT ALL... that's just dumb. I am attracted to men, I wear a bra all the time and even sleep in one usually, and I feel that womyn are as much to blame for the hierarchies as men are. Myth 3: I want to be able to do everything men do. Actually no, as a 3rd wave feminist my goal isn't to place myself as a man so much as to discover the strengths of each sex or gender and allow those to expand. I agree, men are better at cutting down trees and so let them do it. Womyn however are better at aiding the sick, they have better fine motor skills and can do things men can't. And then, of course one's sex doesn't shape ones gender tendencies, one could be a very butch womyn who likes to cut down trees. I say, go for it. Ultimately all I'm trying to prove is that the stereotypes that you associate with feminists aren't probably tru so much as just that, a stereotype.
MN debater, AIM me, I'm probably on and I'm probably bored... toughgirldb8r
|
Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
|
quote: Originally posted by Euterpe: quote: Originally posted by hubbabaloo:
What is with you people?! Just because someone doesn't agree with you, they must therefore not understand it. That's what I get all the time from liberals.
That street runs both ways.
Very true. I hate that. That's why I seriously try not to do it. quote: quote: We are called "women" because the route comes from "wombed man." It expresses how intertwined the sexes are, and how we depend on each other to fulfil or divinity.
] Ah, see no. "Women" comes from "wyfman." And when wyfman came about, the word man had no gender. "Wer" meant man and "wyf" meant woman. (Which later on went to be bastardized as wife.) "Man" was a general term for people. Then they dropped the wer, and man became a term for dudes whilst wyfman just evolved. The thought that woman means "wombed man" is Christianity leaking its way into history where it has no place.
I find that very interesting. I didn't know that. I love linguistics. Of course, still it's not even pronounced womyn when you say it correctly. quote: quote: I understand feminism perfectly. Enlighten me on what you think I'm missing. Please. I know I'm talking about the 2nd wave, but in all honesty, you're just the same. Maybe not the same exact ideas. But you're doing the same thing. Whining and complaining.
What an eerie echo of the words of the conservative women in the early 20th century to the suffragettes you so much admire.
They were complaining about an injustice. Not for the sake of complaining. quote: I'm with bella; you're disappointing me, hub. What you're saying is that women should be content with just voting. We got the right to vote, what more could we possibly want? What else to the world is there, aside from voting? Why would we ever want to get paid an equal amount to our male counterparts? What kind of world would we live in if there wasn't a 30 cent pay gap for every dollar a man makes?
No, I think after we got the right to vote, equal pay (which we have...actually women get paid more in many jobs now) came as a natural after-effect. I don't think it needed to be fought for. With the right to vote, we showed the men that we aren't the airheads they thought us to be. We showed that yes, we could weigh out pros and cons. Yes, we could make our own decisions. quote: Feminism has been convoluted by the same male-dominated media that first shed its ugly black-and-white photo lens upon it. (By the way, feminists didn't actually invent bra-burning. A confused reporter said that women who had thrown out bras and curlers at a Miss America Pagaent had burned them, confusing it with a story on people burning their draft notices.)
And then a bunch of feminists, set on being feminists, burnt their bras. I know people who did it. quote: That's not to say, however, that it hasn't had its progress. Post-1921, you say? Here goes:
1930's: Amelia Earhart flies across the Atlantic solo. Broadhurst (I can't remember her first name) identifies the first measles virus. Frances Perkins got elected as Secretary of Labor for all of Roosevelt's terms.
Oh, Amelia Earhart. Another one of my heroes. Not because she was female. But because she did something that people told her she couldn't. Determination, not feminism is what I think she is "idolizable" for. Broadhurst. Women are equal to men. She was not any more amazing than Pasteur. As Pasteur was not any more amazing than she. Seriously, that's not feminism. That's the want to make a difference. If I were Broadhurst, I would think, "I have made a difference in the world. I can save many people from a deathly disease." Not "I have showed those low men up." quote: 1950's +:
Rosa Parks begins one of the biggest steps in the civil rights movement. The chick who wrote The Silent Spring begins the environmental movement. Something Carson. Sandra Day O'Connor is elected to the Supreme Court. Margaret Thatcher becomes Prime Minister of England.
They were making difference in the world. I don't respect them for what they did for "Women's Rights." All glorious women. But they all did all of these things without the feminist party. Well, maybe it'd make a difference in Margaret Thatcher and Sandra Day O'Connor. But who knows what would have happened without. quote: And now? With Hilary Clinton, Condoleeza Rice, Ruth Bader Ginsberg holdin' it down here in the States, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Chile's President Michelle Bachelet, Liberia's president Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf, Ireland's president Mary McAleese, etc. all holding the highest public office because of feminists and woman-rights-suppoters (both male and female.)
All those benefitting by the work of our mothers' mothers. quote: All of these accomplishments are done by feminists. Whether they like the title or not, that's what they are. And their support comes largely from feminist women.
The women who know that they are equal to men in these aspects. Not the feminists. Why are they feminists? I see them as great people who happen to be women. Not great women who happen to be people.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
|
Registered: September 29, 2004
Posts: 3690
|
quote: Originally posted by hubbabaloo:
What is with you people?! Just because someone doesn't agree with you, they must therefore not understand it. That's what I get all the time from liberals.
That street runs both ways. quote: We are called "women" because the route comes from "wombed man." It expresses how intertwined the sexes are, and how we depend on each other to fulfil or divinity.
] Ah, see no. "Women" comes from "wyfman." And when wyfman came about, the word man had no gender. "Wer" meant man and "wyf" meant woman. (Which later on went to be bastardized as wife.) "Man" was a general term for people. Then they dropped the wer, and man became a term for dudes whilst wyfman just evolved. The thought that woman means "wombed man" is Christianity leaking its way into history where it has no place. quote: I understand feminism perfectly. Enlighten me on what you think I'm missing. Please. I know I'm talking about the 2nd wave, but in all honesty, you're just the same. Maybe not the same exact ideas. But you're doing the same thing. Whining and complaining.
What an eerie echo of the words of the conservative women in the early 20th century to the suffragettes you so much admire. I'm with bella; you're disappointing me, hub. What you're saying is that women should be content with just voting. We got the right to vote, what more could we possibly want? What else to the world is there, aside from voting? Why would we ever want to get paid an equal amount to our male counterparts? What kind of world would we live in if there wasn't a 30 cent pay gap for every dollar a man makes? Feminism has been convoluted by the same male-dominated media that first shed its ugly black-and-white photo lens upon it. (By the way, feminists didn't actually invent bra-burning. A confused reporter said that women who had thrown out bras and curlers at a Miss America Pagaent had burned them, confusing it with a story on people burning their draft notices.) That's not to say, however, that it hasn't had its progress. Post-1921, you say? Here goes: 1930's: Amelia Earhart flies across the Atlantic solo. Broadhurst (I can't remember her first name) identifies the first measles virus. Frances Perkins got elected as Secretary of Labor for all of Roosevelt's terms. 1950's +: Rosa Parks begins one of the biggest steps in the civil rights movement. The chick who wrote The Silent Spring begins the environmental movement. Something Carson. Sandra Day O'Connor is elected to the Supreme Court. Margaret Thatcher becomes Prime Minister of England. And now? With Hilary Clinton, Condoleeza Rice, Ruth Bader Ginsberg holdin' it down here in the States, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Chile's President Michelle Bachelet, Liberia's president Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf, Ireland's president Mary McAleese, etc. all holding the highest public office because of feminists and woman-rights-suppoters (both male and female.) All of these accomplishments are done by feminists. Whether they like the title or not, that's what they are. And their support comes largely from feminist women.
A lo hecho, pecho.
|
Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
|
What is with you people?! Just because someone doesn't agree with you, they must therefore not understand it. That's what I get all the time from liberals. toughshorty, please, I hate that spelling of women. We are not "womyn." We will never be "womyn." Anything you say will never make us "womyn." We are called "women" because the route comes from "wombed man." It expresses how intertwined the sexes are, and how we depend on each other to fulfil or divinity. I understand feminism perfectly. Enlighten me on what you think I'm missing. Please. I know I'm talking about the 2nd wave, but in all honesty, you're just the same. Maybe not the same exact ideas. But you're doing the same thing. Whining and complaining.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
|
Registered: February 10, 2006
Posts: 1881
|
Hubba, you hate womyn's rights movements b/c you don't understand womyn's rights. I don't blame you, much of our society doesn't. It's 3:00AM here and so I am not going to be able to explain this right here right now (b/c I should go to sleep), I'll do it tomorrow night for sure. But the thing is, you are making a reference to the 2nd wave of feminism. We are now in the 3rd wave which has entirely different goals. If you can't wait, look up the different waves of the feminist movement. If you can wait. I promise to explain tomorrow.
MN debater, AIM me, I'm probably on and I'm probably bored... toughgirldb8r
|
Registered: July 26, 2004
Posts: 2891
|
No. I'm saying in your opinion. Either that or from your mom or dad. That's usually the case for people like you. But keep on trying. I hear askjeeves has a lot of smart sounding comments you can look up.
Evitere Les Contrefacons.
|
Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
|
An opinion not generated off Google? What are you talking about? 1920 was the first presidential election that women could vote in. I just knew that bella. So, I said 1921, because that election was the end of the suffragette's purpose. Yes, just because I don't agree with women's rights does not mean I'm ignorant to their history. I did not consult google. I just remembered a date. Oh the horror.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
|
Registered: July 26, 2004
Posts: 2891
|
I'll give you three things and you give me an opinion that's not generated from google. Okay?
Evitere Les Contrefacons.
|
Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
|
quote: Originally posted by bella123:
On the contrary. That is dissapointing to me. Because, you see I don't really quite understand if you understand the movement of feminism. Sure, some people took it to far. But people took it too far in religion. People took it too far in politics. People took it too far in sports. Just because there were a few nuts that took the idea to something crazy doesn't mean that was the whole movement was that crazed.
Give me three worthwhile thing that happened after 1921 at the hand of the feminist movement. I have to think they are so. Otherwise, I'll go on scoffing at the feminists.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
|
Registered: July 26, 2004
Posts: 2891
|
On the contrary. That is dissapointing to me. Because, you see I don't really quite understand if you understand the movement of feminism. Sure, some people took it to far. But people took it too far in religion. People took it too far in politics. People took it too far in sports. Just because there were a few nuts that took the idea to something crazy doesn't mean that was the whole movement was that crazed.
Evitere Les Contrefacons.
|
Registered: January 16, 2003
Posts: 12685
|
I see. Hmmm...well thank you for explaining. I was a little worried that you just believed women were inferior and should just shut up about it. Thank you for not dissapointing me.
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
|
Registered: November 27, 2003
Posts: 1512
|
quote: Originally posted by YouthVoice: quote: I hate women's rights.
I'm curious about this Hub. Please explain.
Women's rights, like what Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony fought for, was a good thing. Our country was not complete until women could vote. However, now the feminists are just a bunch of whining complaining babies. They cause problems here, and cause problems there, attempt to undermine the divinity of womanhood, and to destroy the familial system. All feminists do is whine and complain until some stupid, unsuspecting male requests beating. They don't do anything. Why? Because there isn't a purpose for them anymore. THEIR SHIP HAS SAILED. Get out of town, you stupid feminazis. I respect the original Suffragettes. I think they did glorious, wonderful things, and they were much needed reforms. But the people who came up with the "Miz" whatever and stuff, were just babies, who like to complain about SOMETHING! The burning bras and stuff like that, because they're "restrictions set down by males." Baloney! (Also, I've always thought that NOT wearing a bra would be restricting). They just want to complain. That's all they want.
Just because nobody understands you, that doesn't mean you're artistic.
|
Registered: January 16, 2003
Posts: 12685
|
Posted | |
