Yogore, eventually they will. Discipline is to raise children well and actually shows them (eventually) that the parent actually gives a **** about them enough to try and raise them to be decent human beings.

Besides discipline, telling them you love them, spending time w/ them, etc are very important too, like you said. I think they go hand in hand though because you love them, but also must be the parent and raise them firmly.

Okay, here goes nothing...

I believe that spanking, when used in the right situations, can help in raising a child. If I child does something the parent knows is unacceptable, the child isn't going to cease because the parent says, "Stop". I was spanked (not to be confused with hit/abused) as a child, and I am in no way a violent person. I consider myself a good kid. I know of some not-so-good kids who were raised by parents who didn't believe in discipline.

Yogore, in my opinion, discipline can show that the parent loves the child by wanting to make sure their kid grows up right.

As the original poster of this topic, I never IMAGINED so many people would respond. (As a side note, between the couple of threads i receive instant notification for, I received 58 e-mails inmy mail box this morning...)We discussed this in my sociology class and so now I will share MY opinion.

My parents used to give me a swat when I did anything serious such as lying or talking back. (two things that are considered the worst in my house...) I am not a violent person in any regards, I have learned to respect my elders and to be honest with my parents. I think, like anything, spanking can be abused, but it really is a good form of punishment in other regards. For example. Let's say you decideto "ground" your child. What type of backing does that have? The reason why grounding and removing privilages works for me now (even though it is a biannual event...) is because I have a slight fear of my parents. I know that if I were to severely disobey them, i will get hit. Parents who have never lifted a hand to their child have no leverage for other punishments. Based on the small sampling of my sociology class, hose who were spanked are good kids, and those who weren't should have been...

I in no way however am implying that I condone child abuse, for all those who are ready to yell at me electronically...just stating that spanking, in small quantities is necessary to a well-socialized human being...

quote:

---

Disciplining a child shows that their parents love him, but there are better ways to discipline.

---

Bull ****. Telling your child that you love them shows love. And then spending time and being nice to them does. Discipline may be necessary, but it in no way shows love. A parent may discipline for the good of their child (spanking not icluded), but the child won't see it this way.

What the... Not in that context. Disciplining a child shows that their parents love him, but there are better ways to discipline.

quote:

---

Because the mother and father spank a child out of love in order that they might teach thier kids the difference between right and wrong.

---

That's crap. What about:
I raped you out of love.
I killed her out of love.
etc.

No, dont just spank your kids... beat them... it worked for me... I dont smole anymore because I'm afraid my dads gonna come in and kick my ***, I didn't fail high school, because I was afraid my dad was gonna kick my ***.

I don't drive like a bat outta hell, because I'm afraid my dad is gonna kick my ***...

So beat your kids



(If you all couldn't tell I was being sarcastic and no way do I condone beating kids... beating male teenagers for being stupid... thats my job )

quote:

---

Originally posted by katalinacmnacha89:
Spanking is NEVER okay. I cannot believe what people will do in the name of discipline. If you were to go up to a random person and spank them, it would be battery. You can't even do it in prisons. Why, may I ask, should you be allowed to do it to children?

---

Because the mother and father spank a child out of love in order that they might teach thier kids the difference between right and wrong.

I think there are many, many other ways to discipline a child. But before they can grasp the concept of taking a toy away or something when they are infants, maybe slapping their hand or a mild spanking would be ok, like if you're telling them not to touch something that could be dangerous. In very small use and not to the exertion of force that is then considered abuse do I think spanking is ok.

Spanking is bad whatever the situation is. How could physically abusing someone (even though it may not cause a lot of pain) teach someone a lesson? Lectures are more effective because if the parent is going on for hours and hours the kid has no choice but to listen.

Learning from experience, spanking just leaves something in the spanked childs head that makes a part of them angry all of the time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by yogore:
Punishment is a very tricky thing. If the punishment is taking away something completly random, it doesn't work.
For example, because my sister didn't do something my mom wanted, my mom took away karen's privilage to drive the car 9fair enough, i guess) but also took her cell phone, which my sister pays for herself.
Punishment is too tricky to be put in a broad term. Different things work for every child.

---

That's true. Different punsihments have to be attempted before one is found that's effective. And if the kid is oppositional enough, it's gotta be one hell of a struggle. Still, I agree that spanking is definitely wrong. There's a whole myriad of other ideas that far too few parents are willing to give a fair shot.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CelticNewAger:
She's 5. Been like this since she was 1. My parnets and I tell her it's wrong all the time, and that it hurt us and "makes us sad". No effect.

When grounded, she'll do something self destrcutive, such as hold her breath or hit herself.

---

That's a toughie...it must be awful to have to live with. My new recommendation is drugging her. I'm not entirely sure if I'm kidding.

quote:

---

When grounded, she'll do something self destrcutive, such as hold her breath or hit herself.

---

If she held her breath, she couldn't actually hurt herself. it is impossible to kill your self by holding your breath.

quote:

---

But just as effective and far less violent would be to ground the kid and to remove some of his or her priviliges.

---

Punishment is a very tricky thing. If the punishment is taking away something completly random, it doesn't work.
For example, because my sister didn't do something my mom wanted, my mom took away karen's privilage to drive the car 9fair enough, i guess) but also took her cell phone, which my sister pays for herself.
Punishment is too tricky to be put in a broad term. Different things work for every child. What hardly ever works is spanking. If someone smacked you, would you decide to listen to what they say?

She's 5. Been like this since she was 1. My parnets and I tell her it's wrong all the time, and that it hurt us and "makes us sad". No effect.

When grounded, she'll do something self destrcutive, such as hold her breath or hit herself.

The hilarious thing is my parents don't believe in therapy.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CelticNewAger:
That doesn't work in some cases. My sister is agressive, and I don't mean occasional tantrums. I mean daily she'll bite and hit you and throw furniture at you. Telling her it's wrong never did anything. I'd slap her across the face but I'm too nice.

---

But how old is she? And does she know what's she's doing is wrong? If she's at least four and knows full well what she's doing, then I'd recommend the grounding or the loss of priviliges.

quote:

---

Telling the kid what they did was wrong.

---

That doesn't work in some cases. My sister is agressive, and I don't mean occasional tantrums. I mean daily she'll bite and hit you and throw furniture at you. Telling her it's wrong never did anything. I'd slap her across the face but I'm too nice.

I'm firmly set against spanking under any circumstances. Whether it significantly increases the child's chances of becoming abusive or of resorting to violence in inappropriate situations, I'm not sure. I think that largely depends on the child's genes and his/her personality. Either way, spanking a child, by definition, is causing physical harm to him or her. I'm just against this in principle. If you're going to hit someone under anything short of life-threatening circumstances, you need to make sure they're at least roughly your size and age.

quote:

---

Originally posted by getfuzzygurl:
Even if a parent does not necessarially choose to spank, they need to maintain a constant form of punishment for the aggressive behavior of their children and should not give into the demands of their kids. If they do, they'll end up with horrible attitudes and will learn to whine and hurt people to get what they want for the rest of their lives.

---

This much I agree with: if a parent, on a regulat basis, lets their kid run loose, gives in to demands, or (perhaps most importantly) backs out of a punishment, it sends a very bad message to the kid and encourages bad behavior that may very well last through adulthood. The last of the three is the appeal of spanking for the parents; it doesn't require any effort. You hit the kid, the kid has been punished, it's over, and you can move on with your life.

But just as effective and far less violent would be to ground the kid and to remove some of his or her priviliges. I can see where this would be the less appealing choice to a parent, because the parent would have to actively enforce the punishment over a long period of time and overcome their kid's pleads and threats. However, there is no excuse for not doing this. Spanking is nothing more than a sign of laziness on the parent's behalf.

Lastly, to those will raise the point (as they did in the other spanking thread) about the kids who are too young to be grounded or have priviliges taken away: Kids that young should be spanked under no circumstances. If they're too young to mourn not being able to watch TV for a week, they're more than likely too young to realize what they were doing was wrong in the first place. You could argue that spanking them sends the message that what they did was wrong, and that's true enough, but do you know what else might send the message? Telling them what they did was wrong.

you wouldn't steal a car when you are a little kid.

Spanking teenagers is totally different than spanking a child.

depends on the situation..i was spanked by my so called father when I was three for eating peanut butter using my finger to get it out of the jar. now that was unnecessary, if i had stolen a car that would be fine

quote:

---

Instead, he suggested a wooden spoon or small fly swatter.

---

Not the way to go at all. How would you like it if someone hit you with a 2x4. That is in esscence what these "spanking spoons" are. Large spoons made of hard wood.

quote:

---

they need to maintain a constant form of punishment for the aggressive behavior of their children

---

Aggression (spanking) does not fix the aggressive behavior. It reinforces it.

There needs to be a guide on how to properly spank a kid, that way people would know if they were doing it wrong. Of course this guide would have spanking techniques for fat kids, skinny kids, tall kids, short kids, and kids that laugh when you spank them. There could also be a supplemental chapter on adult spankings and why they are often pleasurable rather than punishing.