[b]I am not saying abortion is right I actually find it very wrong..but if a girl is raped and she gets pregnant I think she should have the choice...I mean how would you feel if you were raped and got pregnant and had the child of a man that had taken something special from you...bow on the other hand if you have sex with you boyfriend and get pregnant that is you own fault and you should not be allowed so I feel they should have limits to abortions.

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but if a girl is raped and she gets pregnant I think she should have the choice...

Why? Why does it matter how it was concieved? It's still a fetus. Why give special rights to one person but not someone else? What happened to equality?

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I mean how would you feel if you were raped and got pregnant and had the child of a man that had taken something special from you...

I wouldn't feel to good.

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bow on the other hand if you have sex with you boyfriend and get pregnant that is you own fault and you should not be allowed so I feel they should have limits to abortions. [/color]

Why? Wait...You're not even pro-life. You're pro-punishment. You want to force women who had sex for pleasure to give birth. Having sex for pleasure is not a luxury only a man can have. The purpose of sex is not to reproduce. I don't know why pro-lifers insist on allowing rape victims to get abortions, but if a women who had sex for pleasure wants an abortion. It's all of a sudden a bad thing. Wtf?

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Originally posted by Hydrok:
And I challenge any of you freaks that want to see the MAP made illegal to try and argue your POV... because not only have I come to the conclusion that the MAP is a satisfactory alternative to abortion, but so has the supreme court... all thats left is many of you evangalists, and god fearing christians.

Abortion isn't the only issue there. Many right-wing nuts consider abortion AND contraceptive to be on the same level. Its a sad reality that they think that.

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Originally posted by freedomordeath:
That's because abortions were little known, if not inexistent, when the original Consitution was written.

Very unfactual. What part of your imagination did that come from. There have always been abortions. In fact, abortion was a non-issue in the world until the republicans wanted to divide the democratic party between its pro-lifers and its pro-choicers. Catholics used to be a very strong voting bloc for the democrats until the republicans made abortion a issue to bring many working-class catholics out of the DP. After all, what working class person would vote for a republican unless republicans guilt people into some religion based issue.

That being said. Both of the right-wing parties in america can go to hell.

All I really want is for women to have the means to prevent the need to have an abortion... even in the cases of rape, If you go to the drug store the next morning and get this pill and it stops the pregnancy from ever occuring that is one less woman in an abortion clinic.

And I challenge any of you freaks that want to see the MAP made illegal to try and argue your POV... because not only have I come to the conclusion that the MAP is a satisfactory alternative to abortion, but so has the supreme court... all thats left is many of you evangalists, and god fearing christians.

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Originally posted by Hydrok:
I dont like abortion at all, but What I'm trying to do is to make sure a woman has a means to take some initiative to prevent an actual abortion procedure from taking place... and the MAP is probably the second best way after normal birth control to keep that from happening... people who claim that the MAP is an abortion or killing an innocent life are, to be honest, retarded.

I assume that's the Morning After Pill?

See I've wrestled with that one. To me it's morally acceptable but it also clashes with my conviction about conception. Like you said it's sort of irrational to oppose it.

However after thinking I'd pobably say that it's not much different than some forms of the pill in that it simply makes the uterus become inhospitible for the zygote before it's been accepted, or in this case possibly before it's even been fertilized.

I dont like abortion at all, but What I'm trying to do is to make sure a woman has a means to take some initiative to prevent an actual abortion procedure from taking place... and the MAP is probably the second best way after normal birth control to keep that from happening... people who claim that the MAP is an abortion or killing an innocent life are, to be honest, retarded.

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Originally posted by Hydrok:
I really wasn't talking to you but still... my point stands... at what point do we end the argument.

I think that's the point of the argument. Unforuntately most people don't actually THINK about the question and simply yell at eachother.

In my expeiance if people actually TALK and THINK about the question, some sort of a comprimise or consensus can be reached.

I really wasn't talking to you but still... my point stands... at what point do we end the argument.

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Originally posted by Hydrok:
So I'm thinking about sex... so do I have to have it and have a kid like right now? At what point will you freaks stop?

Well that's a goddamn bit a stretch from what I said.

And as far as the period goes, it's a natural process. What gets me is the active termination of the pregnancy. If an egg is fertilized during that time the uterus cannot suport life, the woman is not making a concious choice to actively kill the child. Her body merely rejects it.

And yes I realise that the woman may be aware of the conception and the implications of the rejected zygote. That is a world of difference from an actively terminated pregnancy.

OK so now we have a fertalized egg being human... granted you can have a fertalized egg be denied by the uterus by natural processes... so if a woman has sex a day or two before her period does that mean she killed an innocent human being?

So I'm thinking about sex... so do I have to have it and have a kid like right now? At what point will you freaks stop?

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Originally posted by nathenismine:
Ok number 1 I am pregnant right noew and on Tuesday I will be getting an abortion so you can only say something about it if you you have gone through the situation. If you think that a couple of you know what your talking about YOU DONT so stop acting like you know until you go through it

Well based upon my long and detailed moral reasoning of this, I can easily say what I think about the situation without having gone through it.

I do not need to be pregnant to get decide whether or not an unborn child is morally a person. I have decided for entirely secular reasons that abortion is the killing of a human being.

And I will tell you that you will be killing a person, and must live morally with that for the rest of your life. The blood will be on your hands.

I am not a Bible thumper, and I am not some crazy zealot. All I am is a person who strives to keep his feet planted in reality and not allow people to fool themselves for thier own convienence.

True, but then the people who hate it can just not use that right and those who support it can use it.
If people think abortion is evil that's their opinion, just as several others think it's just dandy. Both should be able to be as involved with abortion as they wish.

Unless you're a Supreme Court Justice.

If you think abortion is wrong, great.
If you think it's fine, marvellous.

Moving on.

Ok number 1 I am pregnant right noew and on Tuesday I will be getting an abortion so you can only say something about it if you you have gone through the situation. If you think that a couple of you know what your talking about YOU DONT so stop acting like you know until you go through it

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Posted December 12, 2005 09:34 PM BZZZTTT!!! WRONG... PLEASE PLAY AGAIN.

Even if the sperm fertalizes the egg it still needs to implant itself on the uterus then be accepted by said uterus... so your missing another few days.

http://womensissues.about.com/cs/reproductive/a/blmorningafter.htm
"There are two types of morning after pill available. One morning after pill uses the hormones estrogen and progestin - the same hormones used in standard birth control. The other morning after pill uses progestin only. The morning after pill acts to delay ovulation, prevents fertilization, or inhibits implantation by altering the endometrium"

"inhibits implantation by altering the endometrium" it can prevent a fertilized egg from being implanted (a fertilized egg, mind you, has human DNA and everything it needs to grow into a full grown newborn to be born, again not my opinion but that of science) so if it is "inhibited from implanting it is a form of abortion.....science does not say a fertilized egg needs to implant to have all the makings of a human, it gets all of that from conception.

I get what you are saying about being accepted by the uterus but when you take the morning after pill you deny it any chance to be implanted...and it is still human even though it has not been implanted yet.
And I do realize that in some instances a womans body rejects the egg itself, but it happening naturally and it being induced are two totally differnt things.

ouch Hydrok for the win

BZZZTTT!!! WRONG... PLEASE PLAY AGAIN.

Even if the sperm fertalizes the egg it still needs to implant itself on the uterus then be accepted by said uterus... so your missing another few days.

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Because those of you that believe the morning after pill is abortion might as well say that a life is created when you start thinking about sex

Hydrok-"Spermatozoa can reach the distal uterine (Fallopian) tube (where conception occurs) within 15 minutes after semen is deposited in the vagina. Experiments have shown that freshly ejaculated sperm are infertile; they must be present in the female tract for at least 7 hours before they can fertilize an ovum."
http://www.science.edu.sg/ssc/detailed.jsp?artid=245&ty...ot=4&parent=4&cat=40

So if the sperm can get to the tube that conception occurs in 15 min. and that the sperm are fertile after 7 hrs, it goes to reason that a female could become pregnant (or concieve) after about 7 hrs after intercourse. So then it also goes to reason that the morning after pill could be an abortion.

Now, it can also take a few days to concieve after intercourse, but you really cant know if you concieved after 7 hrs or 3 days...so depending on when conception occured, again, it could be an abortion.