I tried to edit my post but it wouldn't let me so I'll post it again with the changes:

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Originally posted by Ohiosweetgirl:

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Pro-lifers talk about abortion like it is really simple, do you think people are like "great I'm going to have an abortion now"? no one WANTS that but sometimes it is the best option. Do you know anyone who's had an abortion? It's a tough decision, not as simple as you put it.

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Why is it so tough?

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Weren't you the one who told me that everything's subjective? Anyway, you can't prove the exact moment when a human life becomes a human person, that's a matter of opinions. When do you think a human life becomes a person?

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It is human since it was concieved. Aren't human liife and human people the same thing? If not. why not?

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It's a matter of opinion. A human life is "any living entity with human DNA"(so it goes from a baby, to an adult, to a teenager, to a fetus, to a hair follicle, to anything living that has human DNA) and a human person is a human life that's also considered a person and is entitled to human rights, BUT there is a disagreement of when a human life becomes a human person(some people believe it's the same thing, others think it's once it's born, others when it could live outside the womb, etc...) there are diferent opinions about the subject. I'm not exactly sure where I stand on the matter(I think it's before it's born but after it's concieved).

I think it's tough(I haven't had an abortion but I've talked to people who have) to have an abortion because you do realize that you are killing something that would eventually become a person(if you let it). I don't believe anyone likes having abortions but sometimes it is necessary(I know not always, but the solution is not making abortion illegal).[/QUOTE]

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Originally posted by Ohiosweetgirl:

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Pro-lifers talk about abortion like it is really simple, do you think people are like "great I'm going to have an abortion now"? no one WANTS that but sometimes it is the best option. Do you know anyone who's had an abortion? It's a tough decision, not as simple as you put it.

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Why is it so tough?

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Weren't you the one who told me that everything's subjective? Anyway, you can't prove the exact moment when a human life becomes a human person, that's a matter of opinions. When do you think a human life becomes a person?

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It is human since it was concieved. Aren't human liife and human people the same thing? If not. why not?

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It's a matter of opinion. A human life is "any living entity with human DNA"(so it goes from a baby, to an adult, to a teenager, to a fetus, to a hair on your body, to anything living that has human DNA) and a human person is a human life that's entitled to human rights, BUT there is a disagreement of when a human life becomes a human person(some people believe it's the same thing, others think it's once it's born, others when it could live outside the womb, etc...) there are diferent opinions about the subject. I'm not exactly sure where I stand on the matter(I think it's before it's born but after it's concieved).

I think it's tough(I haven't had an abortion but I've talked to people who have) to have an abortion because you do realize that you are killing something that would eventually become a person(if you let it). I don't believe anyone likes having abortions but sometimes it is necessary(I know not always, but the solution is not making abortion illegal).

Ah ****, Ohio. Now the argument will arise again....

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Pro-lifers talk about abortion like it is really simple, do you think people are like "great I'm going to have an abortion now"? no one WANTS that but sometimes it is the best option. Do you know anyone who's had an abortion? It's a tough decision, not as simple as you put it.

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Why is it so tough?

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Weren't you the one who told me that everything's subjective? Anyway, you can't prove the exact moment when a human life becomes a human person, that's a matter of opinions. When do you think a human life becomes a person?

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It is human since it was concieved. Aren't human liife and human people the same thing? If not. why not?

Pro-lifers talk about abortion like it is really simple, do you think people are like "great I'm going to have an abortion now"? no one WANTS that but sometimes it is the best option. Do you know anyone who's had an abortion? It's a tough decision, not as simple as you put it.

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because that someone did not thought/mentally felt/conciously knew anything at all.

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This is very subjective. Anyway, you do not know what point the unborn gains these things. So, how would you know if you are killing a person or not?

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Weren't you the one who told me that everything's subjective? Anyway, you can't prove the exact moment when a human life becomes a human person, that's a matter of opinions. When do you think a human life becomes a person?

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No, it isn't "responsible." It is more responsible than not using a condom, but having sex (using protection or not) when you aren't ready to have kids is in itself irresponsible. One is putting him(her)self at risk of being a parent, when he/she doesn't want a child. What makes it worse is that many times after they do become pregnant, they cry about it and go get an abortion. That is lazy and irresponsible.

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I'm sorry some of us have the realistic expectation of not wearing a chastity belt til we're in our mid 20s. That's just insane.

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It's a shame that your lifestyle might change, but life is what you make of it. The child has the right to have the same opportunities. People risk their lives to save others, and yet, many mothers choose to kill their unborn children because they don't want to "mess up" their lives. Those are the two very different extremes - the selfless and the selfish.

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Nope, you won't die out of an abortion.

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Who cares!? This will not ruin the kid’s life. There are many kids that grow up with their grandparents because their own parents were too young to raise them. Are you telling me that these kids would rather be dead than live with their grandparents?

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Well, my ex-neighbor Gina surely doesn't want to die, but she's had 4 abortions and now a daughter, is 16, and has moved in a ghetto with a boyfriend who cheats on her while she raises her kids. She was raised by her grandmother. I don't want to risk that.

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You can't prove that the unborn is spiritually alive or not. Thus, you need to give life the benefit of the doubt.

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Exactly. So it doesn't lean one way or the other.

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This is very subjective. Anyway, you do not know what point the unborn gains these things. So, how would you know if you are killing a person or not?

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When it pops out of my vagina and screams.

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If they honestly can't handle it, they can give the child up to adoption, which is a very respectable decision.

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No, it does not fix the problem to just give the child up to adoption. A lot of those kids don't find homes at ALL and just hang in limbo of a f-cked up system until they turn 18. Nobody is adopting these kids, not even the pro-lifers. We can't just keep giving things to a beauracratic system and expecting them to take care of everything. Giving a kid up to adoption might be respectable but it doesn't solve the problem I'm talking about which is quality of life FOR the child. Odds are these kids are going to end up in crappy homes if they even GET homes.

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They were responsible enough to have sex.

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No, no, see if they were irresponsible when conceiving the child that marks them as *BAD* choices for parents.

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If they honestly cannot find a home for a child in their house or a family member's house, then they can give it up to strangers who want the child.

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There is a shortage of strangers who want to adopt children. Until we fix THAT problem, suggesting putting the child up for adoption is an irresponsible and simplistic decision.

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Nope. If you used protection, you were responsible.

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No, it isn't "responsible." It is more responsible than not using a condom, but having sex (using protection or not) when you aren't ready to have kids is in itself irresponsible. One is putting him(her)self at risk of being a parent, when he/she doesn't want a child. What makes it worse is that many times after they do become pregnant, they cry about it and go get an abortion. That is lazy and irresponsible.

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And "what your doing?"? Let me remind you did NOT get prengnat out of sex, but of rape, and he did NOT wear a condom.

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When I said "you," I wasn't referring to you, Celtic, instead I was referring to people in general.

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You can't POSSIBLY tell me a teenager will get pregnant, raise her child, go to college and study for years and years, travel, have a life.

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It's a shame that your lifestyle might change, but life is what you make of it. The child has the right to have the same opportunities. People risk their lives to save others, and yet, many mothers choose to kill their unborn children because they don't want to "mess up" their lives. Those are the two very different extremes - the selfless and the selfish.

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Have you any idea how much that kid will hate you later on for not raising it?

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Who cares!? This will not ruin the kid’s life. There are many kids that grow up with their grandparents because their own parents were too young to raise them. Are you telling me that these kids would rather be dead than live with their grandparents?

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If you're not mentally or spiritually alive, you're an empty shell, basically, and serve no use to this planet, and you truly won't be killing "someone"

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You can't prove that the unborn is spiritually alive or not. Thus, you need to give life the benefit of the doubt.

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because that someone did not thought/mentally felt/conciously knew anything at all.

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This is very subjective. Anyway, you do not know what point the unborn gains these things. So, how would you know if you are killing a person or not?

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Eh, you attempted to make what your doing seem acceptable. But, can you honestly say that you tried your best? You see, if you do get pregnant somehow, you should keep on being "responsible" and birth the child and give all you can to the child or give him/her up to someone else.

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Nope. If you used protection, you were responsible. And "what your doing?"? Let me remind you did NOT get prengnat out of sex, but of rape, and he did NOT wear a condom.

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It may be, but getting an abortion is even lazier. Plus, giving your child to your parents is humane.

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No it's not lazy. An abortion can be what fixes your life. You can't POSSIBLY tell me a teenager will get pregnant, raise her child, go to college and study for years and years, travel, have a life. You can't steal away someone's life. And since I know, you will use the "but a fetus is life", well, it's different. The teenager had her life already in creation, had plans for the future, already thought. A fetus just "lives" but other than that I can only give you passive verbs on what it does.

Giving your child to your parents is being irresponsible. It's YOUR child, raise it if you have it. Have you any idea how much that kid will hate you later on for not raising it?

If you've noticed, I add a lot more meaning to "life" than just having a heartbeat. Life, living, I think of it as not only being physically alive, but mentally, spiritually alive. If you're not mentally or spiritually alive, you're an empty shell, basically, and serve no use to this planet, and you truly won't be killing "someone" because that someone did not thought/mentally felt/conciously knew anything at all.

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They usually don't dismiss the idea of having a child because it will take up the time of trivial things.

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Everything is trivial when compared to a human life.

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What about bringing a child into an extremely hostile environment?

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That is not the child's fault. It is up to the parents to fix the problem and let the child have the best life they can possibly offer. If they honestly can't handle it, they can give the child up to adoption, which is a very respectable decision.

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What about not being responsible enough to RAISE a kid?

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They were responsible enough to have sex. If they honestly cannot find a home for a child in their house or a family member's house, then they can give it up to strangers who want the child.

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If someone doesn't feel that they can take the responsibility of raising a child, they shouldn't have one.

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They certainly shouldn't - but you can't stop people from having sex when they aren't ready to have children. Once a child is created, like it or not, the child deserves to be born and live a life.

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Really!? I'm pretty confident this is the reason for every abortion. You get an abortion so that you won't have a child. You haven't sold the idea to me yet.

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My point was that women consider a lot of different things when getting an abortion. They usually don't dismiss the idea of having a child because it will take up the time of trivial things. What about bringing a child into an extremely hostile environment? What about not being responsible enough to RAISE a kid? If someone doesn't feel that they can take the responsibility of raising a child, they shouldn't have one.

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No! Getting an abortion is not...lazy.

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Okay...enlighten me.

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People don't get abortions because they don't want to bother having a child.

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Really!? I'm pretty confident this is the reason for every abortion. You get an abortion so that you won't have a child. You haven't sold the idea to me yet.

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They don't get abortions because they want to spend their time sitting on their *** watching tv.

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They may not just want to watch T.V., but they want to do other things with their time other than caring for their child. Not taking care of your responsibilities (your child) is laziness.

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It may be, but getting an abortion is even lazier. Plus, giving your child to your parents is humane.

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No! Getting an abortion is not...lazy. People don't get abortions because they don't want to bother having a child. They don't get abortions because they want to spend their time sitting on their *** watching tv. It's not apathy or lazyness. I know that wasn't actually directed at me, but I wanted to say that.

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Yes, with condoms you at least wore protection. You tried

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Eh, you attempted to make what your doing seem acceptable. But, can you honestly say that you tried your best? You see, if you do get pregnant somehow, you should keep on being "responsible" and birth the child and give all you can to the child or give him/her up to someone else.

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Throwing your kid to your parent is just lazy.

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It may be, but getting an abortion is even lazier. Plus, giving your child to your parents is humane.

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You think that is irresponsible, yet you think having sex with condoms is responsible?

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Yes, with condoms you at least wore protection. You tried. Throwing your kid to your parent is just lazy.

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I have no time to raise a child without having to throw it to my parents, which I think is very irresponsible.

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You think that is irresponsible, yet you think having sex with condoms is responsible?

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If we outlaw it women will be commiting suicide and doing abortions themselves.

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Your point? You can't honestly think the same number of women would try to get illegal abortions. Sure, some will, but not even close to as many as there are now. Less lives would die. Anyway, you will always find criminals.

1. Most of the people aborting their children probably aren't the ones that host telathons on the poverty of the nations youth. They're probably people who were poor street children or have poor street children.

2. ...like #1, you're talking to the wrong people. I don't know that abortion is a big trend among the upper-middle class white suburban altruistic population. They probably don't DEAL with that issue very often.

3-4. Feeling compassion is a human emotion. It's not the same as asking someone who can barely support or keep track of themselves to support another child. Alternately, I think you and people like you need to start practicing what you preach. Stop spending your time picketing abortion clinics and adopt a couple crack babies.

5. Not a Christian, but hey I figured I'd comment. Christ probably preached tolerance and understanding, too. Am I right? Nobody is FOR abortion. People are pro-choice. Meaning we don't have the right to control people getting abortions - and guess what? If we outlaw it women will be commiting suicide and doing abortions themselves.

I realize that I listed a lot of my sentiments in the *OTHER* abortion thread too, but I went into greater detail here so I figured I'd comment...sorry if anyone read both.

Oh what cosmic irony it is that one of the most pleasurable acts available to man and woman results in the creation of a new life... Sometimes I think God is the great cosmic comedian and I wish I could understand God's ways and meanings, although as a mortal man it is not my place to do so.

Abortion should be a case by case basis and men should have no input on the matter UNLESS they are the father, and even then the final decision should rest with the woman.
I am a christian but unfortunately I am also a sinner. There was a time when I was worried I had a pregnant girlfriend and I wasn't sure if I would ask her to keep it or get rid of it, but I knew really I had no say in the matter because it is her body. If she had been pregnant and had the child it honestly would have ruined my life, and while it was my mistake and my sin to begin with, I think I would rather see that child dead before birth than causing suffering (financial, emotional, and even physical) for me and the young woman, as well as suffering itself if we couldn't give it the financial, physical, and emotional attention it deserved. I do not support the idea of raising and releasing monsters on society. Those homeless kids you see and support might not be suffering had they been aborted, or not concieved to begin with by irresponsible parents.