"Write this down, Amaris. We have our campaign platform: illegalization of masturbation and babies as punishment."

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Your petty threat made me laugh, Desert. You have severe mental delusions.

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If someone's stupid enough to have unprotectded sex, they need to live with their descision. At least it'll keep 'em from doing it again.

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And as for those who have unprotected sex that doesn't result in pregnancy: let's force them to adopt!

Write this down, Amaris. We have our campaign platform: illegalization of masturbation and babies as punishment.

I'm gonna give you idiots a post-birth abortion...

If someone's stupid enough to have unprotectded sex, they need to live with their descision. At least it'll keep 'em from doing it again.

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It is a huge physical discomfort, at least that's the way it seemed to all the women who I've seen give birth. Although I guess someone sweating, screaming, crying, or being jabbed with a huge needle, or being cut open isn't a foolproof way of telling if that someone is in pain.

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It's like a watermelon being squeezed through a hole the size of a lemon. Not too comfortable for the watermelon (baby) or the lemon hole (mother).

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They're sucking a fetus out of your body! Through a tube!! It may not hurt the child, but it certainly hurts you.

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It's a surgical procedure. The woman is usually under anethesia, and can't really feel it.

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After the baby is completely out of the womb, the doctor (or whoever) sticks a needle with a lethal substance in it, INTO THE BABIES HEAD and kills the baby.

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Third trimester and partial- and post-birth abortions, like this one, are illegal.

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As I said before, are we going to legally bar men from "wasting" their sperm? *cough* Each sperm is a potential fraction of a human being.

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Heh. I'm all in favor of doing that, Puffin.

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I believe that by baptizing the baby I am giving him/her eternal life in heaven, so why wouldnt I do everything i can to make sure they are Baptized? To me it would be selfish not to.

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Jesus, this is one of the most horrible things I've read. You do not know that there is a God or a heaven or an afterlife at all. Yet you would make your child suffer for two days or so, and then die a horrible, painful death, for something that you don't know is real. And anyway, a child would go to Heaven, if there is one, regardless if they were baptized or not.

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To me, just one day on this earth is better than none,

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Sorry to inform you, and break the glass on your well insulated happy box that you live in, but this world is not a kind place, especially for babies who are not wanted, or babies who are diseased and about to die. Would you rather a child die in the womb, or a child be born, suffer for three days, and then die a more painful death?

I can't beleive that you don't understand that there is more to having a child than the pain of childbirth. There is the actual child, keep in mind, who needs to be taken care of, loved, fed when you are sleeping, who has to be paid for, bladibladibladi. There is much more pain to having a child than the childbirth.

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I understand why you think this, i suppose I should have explained. I believe that by baptizing the baby I am giving him/her eternal life in heaven, so why wouldnt I do everything i can to make sure they are Baptized? To me it would be selfish not to.

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If you're Protestant, you believe, or should believe, that all children are innocent, and would go to heaven because their mind is not spiritually clouded with reason and intellect. Baptism isn't needed for the child to reserve a place in Heaven.

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Murder and involuntary manslaughter are two very different things; otherwise they would both be called murder, non? So I guess if you want to be technical a baby could be charged with involuntary manslaughter, but i dare say that the baby would get off without serving any time....

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Involuntary manslaughter is a TYPE of murder. If a child is playing with a gun and shoots his brother, that's involuntary manslaughter. It's still murder, but it was an accident.

A fetus is not a person. It has no personality, which is a defining characteristic of a person. The laws in our country protect people (like the mother), not human beings (fetuses).

As I said before, are we going to legally bar men from "wasting" their sperm? *cough* Each sperm is a potential fraction of a human being.

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If you support the mother's right to have an abortion if her child would die regradless, then you're in favor of it.

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I think this is a misunderstanding of the way the term "in favor" is used. Im thinking of an "all in favor say aye" type of situation. So basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't recommend it or anything, I guess. But yes, i do support the mother's right.

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You misunderstand. The child has an extra chromosome in many of these diseases, which cause them to have disfigured bodies and brains, and weak hearts. If the mother KNEW that her child would die, and could prevent it from suffering by aborting it before the second trimester, thus letting it grow to live out its painful death shortly after birth, why not consider that murder? If the mother put the child through unintentional suffering for it to die, that's murder.

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Convenient for you to say that. Were you born with a hole in your back? Or a large tumor growing in your brain -and- heart? Were you born with your urethra on the outside of your body? If you were, you wouldn't even want a day of life on earth because you'd spend all five hours of it needlessly suffering.

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I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree here, because Im not budging and i don't think that you are either.

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Selfish.

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I understand why you think this, i suppose I should have explained. I believe that by baptizing the baby I am giving him/her eternal life in heaven, so why wouldnt I do everything i can to make sure they are Baptized? To me it would be selfish not to.

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Murder is taking the life of another, both intentional and unintentional. There doesn't have to be a motive. People unintentionally murder others all of the time, usually referred to as involuntary manslaughter.

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Murder and involuntary manslaughter are two very different things, otherwise they would both be called murder, non? So I guess if you want to be technical a baby could be charged with involuntary manslaughter, but i dare say that the baby would get off without serving any time....

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Not in favor. I would never encourage or condone abortion, even in these types of situations. However, I would not openly object, either.

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If you support the mother's right to have an abortion if her child would die regradless, then you're in favor of it.

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I disagree with this statement. I simply don't understand how this can be considered murder if no one has done anything to cause the child harm and it dies of natural causes

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You misunderstand. The child has an extra chromosome in many of these diseases, which cause them to have disfigured bodies and brains, and weak hearts. If the mother KNEW that her child would die, and could prevent it from suffering by aborting it before the second trimester, thus letting it grow to live out its painful death shortly after birth, why not consider that murder? If the mother put the child through unintentional suffering for it to die, that's murder.

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To me, just one day on this earth is better than none, and i would want to give this to my child

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Convenient for you to say that. Were you born with a hole in your back? Or a large tumor growing in your brain -and- heart? Were you born with your urethra on the outside of your body? If you were, you wouldn't even want a day of life on earth because you'd spend all five hours of it needlessly suffering.

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I will admit, however, that i have an ulterior motive. As a christian, I would want to baptize my child before it dies.

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Selfish.

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A murder as I understand it involves a specific action undertaken by a person, knowing fully well that the action will or could result in death.

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Murder is taking the life of another, both intentional and unintentional. There doesn't have to be a motive. People unintentionally murder others all of the time, usually referred to as involuntary manslaughter.

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Obviously the child being born can not know that this action could kill its mother.

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Murder.

Gemini

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So you ARE in favor of abortion in some cases, as opposed to earlier when you stated that abortion is completely wrong, regardless of the circumstances.

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Not in favor. I would never encourage or condone abortion, even in these types of situations. However, I would not openly object, either.

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And if the baby would die regardless even if not being aborted, that's murder too. If one intentionally lets their child fully grow, only to be born to die a short while later, that's murder, as well.

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I disagree with this statement. I simply don't understand how this can be considered murder if no one has done anything to cause the child harm and it dies of natural causes. To me, just one day on this earth is better than none, and i would want to give this to my child. I will admit, however, that i have an ulterior motive. As a christian, I would want to baptize my child before it dies.

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you could perceive that as the child murdering the mother, in a politically correct sense.

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Im going to argue on this, simply because I am feeling contrary today. A murder as I understand it involves a specific action undertaken by a person, knowing fully well that the action will or could result in death. Obviously the child being born can not know that this action could kill its mother.

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That's my point. I'm not pro-life, but I'm not even pro-choice. I simply think that babies have every right to a chance to live, regardless of their parent's irresponsibility. But in certain cases, such as diseased babies, and minimal cases of rape, I believe there are exceptions to be made.

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I see what you mean, and for the most part I agree with you. Ill admit that you have swayed my opinion somewhat, so here is my new opinion:

Abortion is wrong in all cases, except when the mother, the child, or both, are in SIGNIFICANT dander, as proven by a doctor. I still do not say that abortion is right, even in these cases (except when both lives are in danger), but I respect the parent's decision in these cases.

Amaris

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Why? Why is a child's life so much more important than a mother's?

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The mother can recover from her physical and emotional distress, and even if she never does completely, she can still lead a good and productive life. The child, on the other hand, can never recover from its early death, and will never even get the chance to lead a good and productive life.

I really find it difficult to see why you don't understand this...

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After the baby is completely out of the womb, the doctor (or whoever) sticks a needle with a lethal substance in it, INTO THE BABIES HEAD and kills the baby.

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That sounds suspiciously like execution by means of lethal injection. The weird thing is, the government supports that.

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Allright, Gemini, I will give you this. If a doctor could absolutely, beyond all doubt, 100% guarantee a woman that her baby would die within just one week of birth

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So you ARE in favor of abortion in some cases, as opposed to earlier when you stated that abortion is completely wrong, regardless of the circumstances.

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1. I personally am a Christian and my moral foundation says that murder is wrong, no matter what the situation.

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And if the baby would die regardless even if not being aborted, that's murder too. If one intentionally lets their child fully grow, only to be born to die a short while later, that's murder, as well. And if the mother dies during childbirth because her body could not handle giving birth to the child, you could perceive that as the child murdering the mother, in a politically correct sense.

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Well thats my personal opinion on that. I understand that not everyone feels that way, so like I said, I dont really think I could blame someone for choosing to abort in that situation.

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That's my point. I'm not pro-life, but I'm not even pro-choice. I simply think that babies have every right to a chance to live, regardless of their parent's irresponsibility. But in certain cases, such as diseased babies, and minimal cases of rape, I believe there are exceptions to be made.

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You walk into this office, and you fill out a form and put on a hospital dress. They don't tell you anything, they just say relax and it won't take long and yatta yatta yatta.

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Wrong., Before the abortion takes place, the mother is reminded of the dangers of abortion and the side effects. They explain the process and make sure an abortion is what the female wants and is in her best interest. They don’t say, "Grab some coffee, lay down, and you'll be outta' here in an hour tops." But, I'm sure you know everything, including the pain of childbirth and the process of abortion, though youre clearly misinformed.

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But really, it's painful.

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As is labor.

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Another way that is less popular but has still been used, is horrific. It may be a little graphic, (no, there aren't any pictures) but to get my point across I should explain it. This method is done shortly after the baby is born. After the baby is completely out of the womb, the doctor (or whoever) sticks a needle with a lethal substance in it, INTO THE BABIES HEAD and kills the baby. Now tell me... pro choice?

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You're referring to partial birth abortions, which are illegal in many states. But you're right; it's immoral and disgusting. In this type of abortion, the doctor sticks a needle into the back on the baby’s upper neck-head, instantly killing the child. But this occurs while the baby is coming out of its mother's uterus; it's technically not born yet.

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The childs life and health are more important than the mothers emotional health.

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Why? Why is a child's life so much more important than a mother's?

Well i had quite a lengthy response hidden, but the goblins ate it and I am too lazy to do it all over again, si here is my resonse in short:

What is really more important?
Yes, labor is painful, and there is a lot of emotional pain involved for mothers who give up their babies. But I really don't see how that pain can be compared to a loss of human life completely. I guess my problem is putting myself in that situation. I would never ever be able to kill my baby, no matter how it was conceived. I would rather spend the rest of my life worrying about my child that i gave up than kill that child. Although I personally could never think of giving my child up either.

In the case of a 12 year old getting raped, yes there is a huge chance that both mother and child could die, and so I would not openly object to the 12 year old girl having an abortion, then again I probably would not have done it myself, unless my parents made me.

On a side note: The case above refers to the rape of a child. I don't know how to explain it, but there is a time in each person's life when they stop thinking as a child and start thinking as an adult. Obviously you can not expect a child to raise another child, but an adult you can, even in the case of rape. As for young, neglectful mothers. All mothers are inexperienced at first. Most have the ability to ask for the help they need. I have three cousins who got pregnant quite young and knew nothing about motherhood, but they learned. I don't see how neglectful mothers and abortion are connected. If the woman does not think they will be a fit parent, or even if people close to them think so, than they should either give the child up of their own free will, or have it taken from then by social services. The childs life and health are more important than the mothers emotional health.

I apologize for my thoughts being all jumbled.

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(and just for the record, I'm a little offended by the attitude you carried tweets on a woman being raped and having a baby. But I won't get into that to prove you wrong)

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Please explain. I certainly never meant to offend you, and I would like the opportunity to defend myself, or clear the air, or whatever.

In ANY situation, rape, or just sex through free will, abortions are still bad! Say a woman was raped (and just for the record, I'm a little offended by the attitude you carried tweets on a woman being raped and having a baby. But I won't get into that to prove you wrong), and became pregnant. Not only would she have the shame and mental disruption from the rape to deal with, but if she got an abortion, she would have the guilt of knowing that she just paid to have an unborn child sucked out of her. It's truely disgusting how people get rid of these children. Like sticking a vacuum in you and sucking out a baby (though unborn and not fully developed, still a human) is comfortable? I have heard from people that have had abortions and they felt like killing themselves afterward. You walk into this office, and you fill out a form and put on a hospital dress. They don't tell you anything, they just say relax and it won't take long and yatta yatta yatta. But really, it's painful. They're sucking a fetus out of your body! Through a tube!! It may not hurt the child, but it certainly hurts you. Another way that is less popular but has still been used, is horrific. It may be a little graphic, (no, there aren't any pictures) but to get my point across I should explain it. This method is done shortly after the baby is born. After the baby is completely out of the womb, the doctor (or whoever) sticks a needle with a lethal substance in it, INTO THE BABIES HEAD and kills the baby. Now tell me... pro choice?