Grrrr damnit! Where did my reply to Amaris' post go???? It was almost finished! Grrrrr.

I have to get off now, Ill start again later.

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But the child would suffer if it had already developed and been born. If the parents were aware that their baby wouldn't live for over a day and the mother's health would be at risk anyway, why would they not abort the undeveloped fetus/baby? You'd rather have the parents AND child suffer, though the child would undoubtedly die anyway?

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Allright, Gemini, I will give you this. If a doctor could absolutely, beyond all doubt, 100% guarantee a woman that her baby would die within just one week of birth, I would say that the woman has the right to abort that child. I however would not recommend doing so, and would never do it myself. You will probably say that my reasons for this are either invalid or insignificant, so i do not blame you if you ignore them, but I shall state them anyway.

1. I personally am a Christian and my moral foundation says that murder is wrong, no matter what the situation.
2. Even if you are not a Christian, you may or may not believe that everything happens for a reason. there is a reason that that child was conceived, and I think that it should be given the chance to carry out its purpose.
3. In connection with #2, the baby's purpose may very well have been to serve as an experience for the parents. Along with the joy in life comes pain, and we as humans must learn to deal with that. Maybe the parents had something they needed to learn, so they were sent that baby.

Well thats my personal opinion on that. I understand that not everyone feels that way, so like I said, I dont really think I could blame someone for choosing to abort in that situation.

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It wont be a reminder every day of their life if they choose to give it up for adoption.

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The fact that they gave it up for adoption would make the reminder of the pain worse, if anything. I don't know about you, but if I have to go through childbirth like pain, I would like to think that I would get something out of it.

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And again i repeat, what is a little emotional pain amd physical discomfort as compared to the loss of a human life.

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It is not a "little" physical discomfort or emotional pain. It is a huge physical discomfort, at least that's the way it seemed to all the women who I've seen give birth. Although I guess someone sweating, screaming, crying, or being jabbed with a huge needle, or being cut open isn't a foolproof way of telling if that someone is in pain. If a woman has an abortion, she never sees the child, whereas a woman who gives a child up for adoption has to live the rest of her life with the pain of giving up a child to a complete stranger. Whereas if she had had an abortion, it would have been much less emotional, as she wouldn't have ever come in contact with the child.

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Like it or not, the woman is a mother now and she needs to "suck it up" and be a real woman.

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Being a "real woman" has nothing to do with childbirth or the pain of childbirth.

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In the U.S., 7 in 10 women who had sex before age 14, and 6 in 10 of those who had sex before age 15 report having had sex involuntarily

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Rape. Six out of ten women who have sex before they are 15 are raped. More than half. A 15 year old girl, or younger, is not equipped to deal with the responsibility of childbirth. Being a real woman would mean that those 15 year old (or younger) girls who were raped would realize that they are not prepared to deal with it, and they need to do what is best for the baby, and for them.

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Approximately 4 in 10 young women in the U.S. become pregnant at least once before turning 20 years old

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My mother had my older sister when she was 21, and although she was married, she wasn't prepared for the huge responsibility that is pregnancy. Most unmarried 20 year olds (or younger) wouldn't be prepared, either. So my question to you is, would you rather see a child aborted or see a child die a slow death at the hands of a young and neglectful mother?

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According to the Justice Department, one in two rape victims is under age 18; one in six is under age 12

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12. One in six rapes are twelve year olds or younger. Anyone 12 or younger is not physically able to have a child. A 12 year old's body is not ready to have a child, therefore childbirth for a 12 year old is increasing the chance of both her and her child's death. A 12 year old who is raped should not have to risk her life just so that you, someone who is not affected by her situation at all, feel that you accomplished something.

A side note: There are thousands upon thousands of babies born in the United States like that. As diseases become more common, the babies' chances for survival with the disease (e.g. trisomy 13, 21, spinabifida, etc.) is slim to none.

I had a neighbor who lost her baby boy to some strange disease (I'll look up the exact name later) at 3 days old. He had a tumor growing on his head, his toes and fingers were little stubs instead of fully developed fingers/toes, he a weak heart, and he had no kneecaps. The doctors were aware that the child was developing with the disease, but since my neighbor is a Christianly pro-lifer, she refused to abort her child, though she inevitably knew that her son would die, regardless.

But the child would suffer if it had already developed and been born. If the parents were aware that their baby wouldn't live for over a day and the mother's health would be at risk anyway, why would they not abort the undeveloped fetus/baby? You'd rather have the parents AND child suffer, though the child would undoubtedly die anyway?

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Yeah, a continuous, painful reminder, every day for nine months, and the rest of her life. Because the woman deserves morning sickness, back aches, bloating, fatigue, etc., along with the rape.

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It wont be a reminder every day of their life if they choose to give it up for adoption. And again i repeat, what is a little emotional pain amd physical discomfort as compared to the loss of a human life. Like it or not, the woman is a mother now and she needs to "suck it up" and be a real woman.

Did you happen to click on the link in my other post that proved abortion was more fatal to mothers tham giving birth to the child, even in the case of suicide? If I were to be raped and then have an abortion I know i wouldnt be able to look at the face staring back at me from the mirror for very long. At least having a baby would give the woman something more important than herself to worry about.

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Yes guys are raped to but far less

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Yes, and there's a much smaller need for male abortions.

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Only 88% of woman report rape and they may not want to have to go to the police station after all that trauma even though they should.

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Even less. Less than half of all rapes are reported in the US.

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Boo hoo, she'll have to live with a reminder of her ordeal for 9 months. Oh well, get over it. Which is worse, some emotional trauma, or the murder of an innocent child?

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Yeah, a continuous, painful reminder, every day for nine months, and the rest of her life. Because the woman deserves morning sickness, back aches, bloating, fatigue, etc., along with the rape.

Sorry! I was trying to start a topic! My mistake! ahh... What am I doing...?!

I dont think there is all that much hate here. A little hostility maybe, but generally people try to respect each other.

And I didnt really see any hate on this thread. I wasnt personally insulted anyway. There was a censored word in Amaris' thread directed at me, but since i couldnt figure out what it was supposed to say i took no offense. And if i insulted anyone I certainly didnt mean to and i apologize. Just trying to get my opinion across.

Why is there so much hate on these boards? Aren't we suppose to help each other but not hate each other? I mean I've only been here for 1 day & I already seen enough hate to last me a life time. With all of the JoeyDauben threads, DesertEagle threads, Napoleon threads,ect. I don't agree with them sometimes but that's no reason to hate them! You don't know them personaly so how come you hate them? They also have a right to say their opinions. Just like everyone else. So I just don't understand. Everyone's opinion is different. Please explain.
*If I made a mistke on anything I'm sorry I don't mean to*
-JustMyself

Good lord... I really don't think those pictures were necissary. That's truely horrible. I highly doubt those children (if real) lasted an hour outside the womb. I wouldn't be surprised if they were dead before they were even born. There is still no excuse for abortion. People try to save babies if they're in poor condition. If there is no hope, they die shortly after birth anyway. Babies like that, are usually born in third world countries. How many babies do you see born like that here?

I saw your post gemini, please see my response below, I know we got all mixed up or something.

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Aborting the child in the name of "justice" is simply taking out the fault of the ummm ("father" for lack of a more appropriate word that would not be censored) on an innocent child who did not choose the method in which it was conceived

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Tweet, did you even read my post? If certain children aren't aborted, they're facing a horrible three days to live, because there's no possible way the can survive. You want to abolish all abortion.. even on children who cant even see their first birthday? Alright, here come the pictures, then:


Urethra and part of the gastro-intestinal tract
are on the outside of the body.


Extreme hydrocephalus; deformity of face, body and ear. The line running down the right hand side of the head would appear to show that potentially two heads were forming.


Myelomengiocyle - Spina Bifida, this is a large thoracic / lumbar region lesion


Front view of same child. Severe deformities of mouth and eyes. The welts appear to indicate open wounds, or unformed skin tissue.


This child is completely covered in a white susbstance of unknown properties. Obvious deformation of face and eyes. Flash photography at close range obscures detail.


Severe body deformity, with head that appears to be formed at 90 degree angle to upper torso.

Yes. Pro-life for the dead.

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Every year, about 520,000+ women die during labor. That doesn't seem too unlikely, considering the amount of pregnant mothers every year.

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Maternal Death Estimates
This website from 1996 actually estimates maternal deaths at 585,000. Which admitedly is a huge number. However, please note that the majority of these deaths occured in regions where the health care is not all that great. The number of deaths in Europe was only 3,000 and the number of deaths in the entirety of North AND South America was 23,000. I couldnt find the total number of births, but it seems to me that these numbers would be only fractions.

I did find a website that estimatesthe number of maternal deaths in America in 1998 at 6.3 per 100,000 which works out to be .000063%. So I again say that dieing in childbirth, at least in the US, is highly unlikely.
To see those numbers go here and click on 1C-1

I also found a study that was quite interesting and I thought you might like to see it. It says, in brief, that abortion is actually four times deadlier than childbirth.
Click here

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If it were legalized, people would get abortions illegally, thus making it a more dangerous and unsafe procedure than normal.

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Hopefully knowing that the procedure was very unsafe would discourage most women from going through with it, then. As for the women who still choose to go through with an abortion, in my eyes they are cold hearted murderers and deserve to be punished. If they are not injured or killed as a result of their illegal abortion, I hope they are arrested.

As for the link you posted, all of those pictures were taken in Iraq. It says right on that website that most of those deformities are results of malnutrition during pregnancy. The issue here is better care for those mothers, not whether the babies should have been aborted or not. If the mothers had been given the proper care they needed, most of those babies would have been fine.

The whole rape/conception/abortion issue.... yes very touchy subject and I guarantee that you will not like what I have to say, but alas, I shall say it anyway.

You say that it is not justice that a woman who is raped should be forced to carry a baby to term. Well I for one feel that the baby in question has absolutely nothing to do with justice in the case of rape. Aborting the child in the name of "justice" is simply taking out the fault of the ummm ("father" for lack of a more appropriate word that would not be censored) on an innocent child who did not choose the method in which it was conceived. Yes, it was a horrible thing that happened to the woman, but that does not give her the right to kill her own child. Boo hoo, she'll have to live with a reminder of her ordeal for 9 months. Oh well, get over it. Which is worse, some emotional trauma, or the murder of an innocent child?

The rest of your argument does not apply because I would never advocate a law legalizing abortion only in the case of rape, for reasons stated above.

Okay Tweet, before u take ur "brilliant" plan and make abortion illegal maybe u could do us women a favor and get all of the rape kits examined. Yes guys are raped to but far less, and this is about abortion and women get pregnant. Our gov. system is based on JUSTICE not what's right or wrong. If a man violates you body and u become pregnant then u have the right to get an abortion. It may not be "right" but a lot of things aren't but this system is not based on right or wrong it's based on justice and it is in no way justice to force that woman to have that child. If u have casual sex and the woman get pregnant then I think the woman should have to have that child if they're not at risk b/c it was their choice but if they're raped they do NOT have to. I don't care if it's wrong to have it aborted, they've just been violated and now u expect them to have to carry that child, NO!! and the fact is, if u make a law saying u can only have an abortion if ur raped, well guess what, ur gonna have a lot of woman at those police stations claiming things. Only 88% of woman report rape and they may not want to have to go to the police station after all that trauma even though they should. So they might decide to go a few days or years later. But by that time most likely the semen etc. will be gone and it will be hard to prove ur case. Also, even if they did report it right away, not all rapes leave bruises where u can say "a rape occured here" so it's not justice that that woman has to have that child just b/c the rapist put a pill in the drink, or knocked her out (not always w/ an object but also that stuff u put on a cloth and up to their nose etc.) or whatever. So u have to keep abortion legal.

What, did it finally sink under the weight?

There goes China.

You know, every sperm is a fraction of a human being. They ought to make it illegal for men to squirt it all over the shower. Waste of human life, I tell you.

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People dieing during childbirth nowadays is highly unlikely.

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Every year, about 520,000+ women die during labor. That doesn't seem too unlikely, considering the amount of pregnant mothers every year.

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Yes, there will always be women whose opinions you can not sway. But at least if it is illegalized (Is that a word?) we can lock up the women who choose to do it.

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If it were legalized, people would get abortions illegally, thus making it a more dangerous and unsafe procedure than normal.

Were you aware that there are tests that mothers can take to determine whether or nor their child will be healthy? And by healthy I'm not referring to having asthma, or small fingers. I'm referring to having serious diseases. And if these children were allowed to grow and develop in the uterus, and were born, they'd only live a few days or months, if anything. You don't think it'd be more humane to abort that death-destined child before he/she can suffer?

Children who weren't aborted ..when they should have been. It would have made their lives, if I should say that, relieved of suffering.

I'd post the pictures, but they're graphic. So be thankful I'm just providing a link that you pro-lifers better look at before you say "women should NEVER have abortions."