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Registered: March 08, 2003
Posts: 2426
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quote: Law enforcement is on alert: teen prostitution is flourishing nationwide. The girls are younger, the trade is more violent—and, increasingly, the teenagers come from middle-class homes. A NEWSWEEK exclusive
Aug. 18 issue — Like many teenage girls in Minneapolis, 17-year-old Stacey liked to hang out after school at the Mall of America, Minnesota’s vast shopping megaplex. Cute, blond and chatty, she flirted with boys and tried on the latest Gap fashions. One day last summer, Stacey, which isn’t her real name, says she was approached by a man who told her how pretty she was, and asked if he could buy her some clothes. “He was an older guy, dressed really well,” she recalls. “He said he just wanted to see me in the clothes.” Stacey agreed, and went home that night with a $250 outfit.
THE ENCOUNTER TAUGHT Stacey a lesson: “Potentially good sex is a small price to pay for the freedom to spend money on what I want.” The easiest way, she discovered, was to offer her body in trade. Stacey, who lives with her parents in an upscale neighborhood, gets good grades in high school and plans to try out for the tennis team, began stripping for men in hotel rooms in exchange for money to buy clothes—then went on to more intimate activities. She placed ads on a local telephone personals service, offering “wealthy, generous” men “an evening of fun” for $400. All the while, she told her parents she was out with friends or at the mall, and was careful to be home before her midnight curfew.
Stacey’s story is enough to make any parent sick with worry. Sadly, her experience is growing more common. Over the last year, local and federal law-enforcement officials say they have noted a marked increase in teen prostitution in cities across the country. Solid numbers are difficult to come by—a government-sponsored study puts the figure in the hundreds of thousands—but law-enforcement agencies and advocacy groups that work with teen prostitutes say they are increasingly alarmed by the trend lines: the kids are getting younger; according to the FBI, the average age of a new recruit is just 13; some are as young as 9. The girls—many fewer are boys, most experts believe—are subjected to more violence from pimps. And, while the vast majority of teen prostitutes today are runaways, illegal immigrants and children of poor urban areas, experts say a growing number now come from middle-class homes. “Compared to three years ago, we’ve seen a 70 percent increase in kids from middle- to upper-middle-class backgrounds, many of whom have not suffered mental, sexual or physical abuse,” says Frank Barnaba of the Paul & Lisa Program, which works with the Justice Department and the FBI in tracking exploited kids. Adds Lisa Grahn, another Paul & Lisa counselor: “People say, ‘We’re not from the ghetto.’ The shame the parents feel is incredible.”
One thing people will notice about me, if they haven't already, is that I love to question the morality of our morality. And sometimes, it's a bitter pill to swallow. There is a reason I believe this sort of stuff is happening, and I KNOW it is not of popular opinion, but please ponder as I offer my theory. firstly I blame people like this: quote: How is the problem of pornography to be dealt with? Folger offered two solutions. First, she said, Christians must be active to oppose pornography locally. She told of how Oklahoma City banned strip clubs in 1984 and subsequently saw rape decrease by 25 percent. Second, Folger spoke of the need for a biblical worldview. “Why does God tell us not to engage in pornography? Is it because He hates us? No. He says don’t commit adultery because He knows adultery destroys lives, destroys marriages, and destroys families.”
Pornography is not mentioned in the Bible. Remember, photography did not exist when the book was written. Most Fundamentalists, however, base their objection to pornography on two biblical references. In Genesis 3:7, Adam and Eve committed the first sin, and, says the Bible, they suddenly realized they were naked and tried to cover themselves. Fundamentalists point to this as proof that nudity is bad. This, of course, makes no sense since Adam and Eve were naked before they ever sinned by eating of the "fruit of the tree." God created humans naked, and they lived naked until they sinned. Some want to claim, however, that nudity became a sin after "the fall." And, in fact, in Leviticus 18 we find a whole chapter dedicated to why the people of Israel should not see their family members nude (though the actual words used indicate this means having sex with them, not just seeing them naked). However, in chapter 19, verse 27, we also are told not to cut the hair over our ears, or even to trim our beards, and earlier in the same book we're told not to eat pork or birds (uh oh, no more fried chicken!). Why do Fundamentalists pick out those parts of Leviticus that they want to be sins and ignore the rest? Good question. Leviticus was not meant for you and me. It was meant for ancient Israel. Its rules were designed to rid a nomadic population of their diseases, not as a rulebook for all humans. But, interestingly enough, even if we decided to apply all the rules of Leviticus to our lives, if we never cut the hair over our ears and never ate pork or turkey again, and never saw any of our family members naked, the book never says it's a sin to see a non-family member naked. In fact, nowhere in the Bible do we read that nudity, by its very nature, is wrong. In Exodus, chapter 20, we read the Ten Commandments, and are told that we should not commit adultery. Adultery however is not defined as simply having sex outside of marriage. It's defined as having sex with a married person. Nothing is said to prohibit sexual relations between two unmarried people. In fact, if we look in the book of Leviticus, we are given a list of every situation in which we should not have sex. We're not to have sex with married people, or with family members, or with animals. We are not, however, prohibited from having sex with an unmarried person who is not in our family. What isn't being told to you is the full truth. What is said is only a half truth, rape did decrease in Oklahoma City 25%, but it also rose 20% in the rest of the state. quote:
Since 1984, over 150 sex-oriented businesses (peep shows, massage parlors, bookstores, theaters, etc.) have been closed in Oklahoma City. During that period, the rape rate in the county decreased 25%. During the same period, rape increased 20% throughout the rest of the state. — Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, Rape Statistics – Oklahoma City vs. Balance of Oklahoma, 1983-1988.
Now why is this? Why are teen prostitutes on the rise? Firstly young ladies who want to participate in this sort of activity will, they want a quick buck and they'll get it. Secondly when you close down these places it is rather obvious these girls will hit the street to get some money. Yes maybe they start out as an escort or they strip in some back alley hotel, then they say why not go that one step further...why not double my money, why not be paid for sex? Thirdly, when you close these places, who else hits the streets? Yes! The sexual deviants who are now no longer hiding behind closed doors, but in the mall...looking over you, your girlfriends and for the older crowd, your daughters. Supply and demand, girls who want money get involved with even more dangerous people since they are no longer protected by the club owners and bouncers...they still need money and they'll still do what they can to get it. An increase in prostitution is revealed. The sexual deviants who used to hang out in these clubs still want to see naked young girls, still want sex, except now they don't know where to find it...so they hang around highschools, the mall or the movies...waiting for the right girl for the right price...or maybe no price at all. Increase in prostitution and rape is now revealed. So why is it rape would increase in the rest of the state and not in Oaklahoma City? Firstly many of the clients who visted such places were most likely from out of town. Secondly, it is common knowledge of any criminal mind not to commit a crime in your own backyard. So what these laws against strip clubs and such have done is, yes removed pornography and rape from the city...and moved it right into your nice suburban neighborhood. This is when I question the morality of our morality, this is when I question do this people who are so hardline against pornography consider the rest of us, do they care they have simply relocated their problems onto others? I don't think they do, and I think they should consider the end gain for all, and not just their own selfish gain.
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Registered: March 08, 2003
Posts: 2426
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kelso
pretty much, that is the point. I'm also saying teen prostitution is on the rise because now the vagrants who were in the strip clubs are also on the street offering money to girls.
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Registered: October 01, 2003
Posts: 364
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I think I get what you mean. Tell me if I'm even close...
This reminds me of a debate I saw once. It was a debate about weather or not parents of teenagers should let their kids have house partys. The jist of it was "If I don't let my kids have a house party where alcohol will be served then they will just drink alcohol some place else where I will not be there to supervise them."
Does this somehow relate to what you are trying to say? If there are not strip clubs in a city then people will just find other ways to...do that kind of stuff where there will not be the strip club owners to supervise them and make sure things don't get out of hand. And if they cannot go to strip clubs, prostitution will come to hand and worse things.
So the whole theme of this is, "Even if they are doing something bad at least we are there to supervise them and make sure nothing terrible happens?"
Is this what you mean?
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Registered: March 02, 2003
Posts: 2224
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I wasn't aware that teenage prostitution was as big a deal as it is until I read the story about teenage prostitution in the new RS. Apparently, it's gotten huge in Minnesota, so Uptown, don't talk to strangers, okay?
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Registered: April 05, 2003
Posts: 931
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c'mon dont deny my bootyliciousness
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Registered: April 05, 2003
Posts: 931
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quote: I dunno about a strip club, but I'd sure as hell would be a model...in a second
hey i could be a plus size model eh? what u guys think? am i foxi enough? *strikes a pose* aint i pretty? 
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Registered: March 08, 2003
Posts: 2426
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yeah I don't exactly support that one. I mean so far in Las Vegas it's working, but I think it hurts families too much. If 2 married people are having problems, it would be to easy for a guy just to run out and...well...you know, get some theropy.  People need to deal with their problems and not just satisfy their needs. quote: heck, if i had the body...i'd shake it
I dunno about a strip club, but I'd sure as hell would be a model...in a second. 
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Registered: April 05, 2003
Posts: 931
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heck, if i had the body...i'd shake it
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Registered: September 08, 2003
Posts: 2181
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The reason I keep saying prostitution where you're saying strip clubs is because my uncle makes almost the same arguments, except he wants to set up legal brothels, as he calls them. So I keep thinking about what he usually says when I'm writing, and it gets kind of mixed up. Love, Jen
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Registered: March 08, 2003
Posts: 2426
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YAY!!! Jen Gets It!!! although no I'm not in that one point you made promoting prostitution, just strip clubs. 
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Registered: September 08, 2003
Posts: 2181
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Actually what I was saying is the fact that they closed down non-sex places like strip clubs, is causing girls to move into the streets and find other less healthy ways of getting money.
Eh, I should have seen that. My excuse is lack of sleep. But yeah, I see what you’re saying.
I think it is much safer for a girl to dance in some club I may or may not agree with then to have her on the street having sex with preverted old men.
We are in total agreement, then. But I think most people are more concerned about convincing themselves they're doing something to promote Christian morals than they are about actual safety.
I am also saying since those perverted old men from the strip clubs no longer have a place to sit and be perverted, they are spreading out and finding young girls who will take money for sexual favors. At least in a strip club there is an age requirement and it is safe...I have seen some of the bouncers who work at these places...and I'm not going to mess with them.
Yes, the safety and the age is the most important thing. Sure, strip clubs may be immoral and/or perverted, but at least they’re relatively safe.
What no one gets is that not everyone is a rocket scientist and some people will do whatever it takes to get money, and there is nothing any of us can do about it. So our option is, promote safety or let the perversion spread like a virus all over the country.
Once again, though I realize that it’s not what you’re saying, this sounds very similar to those who advocate institutionalized prostitution. With STD testing and condoms and safe housing and such, rather than letting it run rampant.
Another is, just like that church person lied about the stats…
No question about that, but it seems like everybody lies about stats these days…they even teach stat manipulation in statistics courses, for heaven’s sake. Gah.
…they also tried to glorify it with the bible by stating stuff that isn't even in the bible...which is also wrong. Basically they are enforcing their own morals on everyone in their church. The people are in the church because they believe in Jesus Christ and God...and that is what they should learn about, not personal opinion. Unless that preacher believes they are God which is blasphemy, they have no right to teach anything but the word of God as believed in the bible.
Well, yes and no. If we don’t interpret the Bible in a modern context, we don’t have much to talk about. And when you interpret, you’re going to get a little personal opinion mixed in. What’s important is that preachers make sure that other people know what’s opinion. Of course, just spouting off stuff that they think Jesus should have said, or would have if he were alive today is crap.
I’m tired…so tired. It’s 3:30 and I need to go to sleep. Love, Jen.
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Registered: March 08, 2003
Posts: 2426
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quote: By preventing prostitution in that Oklahoma City, we spread the prostitution throughout the state, which is causing it to rise in urban neighborhoods, where middle class kids live. Thus those kids become prostitutes. Where I got the instutionalization was: If they don't like their kids getting into it, set up a place with certain restrictions (like age) and that will draw the customers, thus preventing the middle class girls from becoming prostitutes.
Actually what I was saying is the fact that they closed down non-sex places like strip clubs, is causing girls to move into the streets and find other less healthy ways of getting money. We have to face facts here, girls of the night have been around since the beginning of time. Even when they were burned at the stake or killed by Jack The Ripper...nothing stopped them. I think it is much safer for a girl to dance in some club I may or may not agree with then to have her on the street having sex with preverted old men. I am also saying since those perverted old men from the strip clubs no longer have a place to sit and be perverted, they are spreading out and finding young girls who will take money for sexual favors. At least in a strip club there is an age requirement and it is safe...I have seen some of the bouncers who work at these places...and I'm not going to mess with them. What no one gets is that not everyone is a rocket scientist and some people will do whatever it takes to get money, and there is nothing any of us can do about it. So our option is, promote safety or let the perversion spread like a virus all over the country. Now that is just one point.  The other is Church groups and the likes try to make their stance more solid by only stating part of the truth. They don't tell you yes crime or whatever went down in our area, but it doubled everywhere else. This is a false and dangerous statement and people should feel very betrayed by that sort of stuff. Another is, just like that church person lied about the stats, they also tried to glorify it with the bible by stating stuff that isn't even in the bible...which is also wrong. Basically they are enforcing their own morals on everyone in their church. The people are in the church because they believe in Jesus Christ and God...and that is what they should learn about, not personal opinion. Unless that preacher believes they are God which is blasphemy, they have no right to teach anything but the word of God as believed in the bible. 
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Registered: September 08, 2003
Posts: 2181
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No, you're not a bad writer. People interpret things all kinds of ways. Your points as I understand them: By preventing prostitution in that Oklahoma City, we spread the prostitution throughout the state, which is causing it to rise in urban neighborhoods, where middle class kids live. Thus those kids become prostitutes. Where I got the instutionalization was: If they don't like their kids getting into it, set up a place with certain restrictions (like age) and that will draw the customers, thus preventing the middle class girls from becoming prostitutes. It would serve as a center away from young girls, as in Oklahoma City. You have an acceptable supply of whores to meet the demands of the state. (Sorry if I sound crude or callous.) I knew you weren't directly advocating legal or organized prostitution, but it seemed like it could lead up to it. And by the way: this subject is very important, to me at least, and it's great that you're tackling it. Love, Jen.
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Registered: March 08, 2003
Posts: 2426
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yeah your wrong, but I'm finding this interesting the different views people are taking away from it. I thought it was risky taking on this subject and I actually make a few points in this...but no one has seen them yet...guess I'm not a good writer. 
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Registered: September 08, 2003
Posts: 2181
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It sounds like your argument is leaning towards promoting the institutionalization of prostitution...I could be wrong though. Jen.
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Registered: March 08, 2003
Posts: 2426
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I think you missed the big picture, but yeah it is still wrong either way. 
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Registered: August 20, 2003
Posts: 241
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that is so sad! people are so stupid these days! Haven't these grl's mothers told them about the "Birds and the Bees"???? or Abstinence??? This makes me sick, if grls that young are going into prostitution, that is wrong, prostitution is wrong!! heck, they could make the same amount of money selling lemonade!! ugh, BillyBarrio, this is a good topic to get some of us all riled up! LOL well, i think we should ban prostitution!! 
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Registered: March 08, 2003
Posts: 2426
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how's that for long? Please read it though, it is an important issue and I know most of you can handle reading.  for those of you who can't...here's the jist of it. But far from all I have to say. How is the problem of pornography to be dealt with? Folger offered two solutions. First, she said, Christians must be active to oppose pornography locally. She told of how Oklahoma City banned strip clubs in 1984 and subsequently saw rape decrease by 25 percent. Second, Folger spoke of the need for a biblical worldview. “Why does God tell us not to engage in pornography? Is it because He hates us? No. He says don’t commit adultery because He knows adultery destroys lives, destroys marriages, and destroys families.” What isn't being told to you is the full truth. What is said is only a half truth, rape did decrease in Oklahoma City 25%, but it also rose 20% in the rest of the state Since 1984, over 150 sex-oriented businesses (peep shows, massage parlors, bookstores, theaters, etc.) have been closed in Oklahoma City. During that period, the rape rate in the county decreased 25%. During the same period, rape increased 20% throughout the rest of the state. — Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, Rape Statistics – Oklahoma City vs. Balance of Oklahoma, 1983-1988. This is when I question the morality of our morality, this is when I question do these people who are so hardline against pornography consider the rest of us, do they care they have simply relocated their problems onto others? I don't think they do, and I think they should consider the end gain for all, and not just their own selfish gain.
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