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I'd like you to show me the legislation that gives the government jurisdiction to instruct me on which sugergical procedures I can and cannot receive. And where what I do with my body is their business, and how it does not infringe upon my right to privacy.

Point being is that there's strong evidence and reasoning that the zygote on up the infant is NOT part of your body, at which point any surgical procedures that would endanger the life of that entity are outside your right to privacy. Also there's a whole list of banned surgical procedures.

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abortion is messed up, why!!!!

Please come up witha better argument than that.

abortion is messed up, why!!!! Why kill something that can't defend it's self? go take on a grizzly bear, let the little kids live!!!!!

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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life..."

Does any one else find it Ironic that Thomas Jefferson was a slaveowner?

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Originally posted by Neodigit7:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life..."

By that quote alone, I have no rights. But that's a technicality.

I'd like you to show me the legislation that gives the government jurisdiction to instruct me on which sugergical procedures I can and cannot receive. And where what I do with my body is their business, and how it does not infringe upon my right to privacy.

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Same thing works with normal murder, with rape, robberies, and drugs. No matter what if you make something illegal people will still do it. So does that mean the government should go and make rape, murder, stealing, and drugs legal too, just because people will do it anyway?

The thing is though, banning abortion was ruled to be unconstitutional under Roe v. Wade. The illegalities of muder, rape, robbery, and drug-use, however, are perfectly constitutional.

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So the right to choose what one wants weighs more than the right for someone's life now? Let me get this straight, it is ok for someone to kill someone because they had good reason to do so, they wanted to? It is ok for someone to rape another because they're lust pointed them in that direction?

It depends on what you mean by "right". In the eyes of society at large, no it isn't right. But in the eyes of a few, it is perfectly justified. Which of those viewpoints is the correct one, if there can even be said to be a correct one?

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Well, boo-hoo they don't. They can't feel, they can't think, they have no perception, they don't have rights.

Then what about this?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life..."

Fetus' no matter what stage, single celled, multi-celled or more complex, are unique human beings with a unique DNA sequence and therefore are entitled to the basic right of life.

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Legal or not,people will get abortions.

Same thing works with normal murder, with rape, robberies, and drugs. No matter what if you make something illegal people will still do it. So does that mean the government should go and make rape, murder, stealing, and drugs legal too, just because people will do it anyway?

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Because pro-lifers want to deny women the even more important right to choose.

So the right to choose what one wants weighs more than the right for someone's life now? Let me get this straight, it is ok for someone to kill someone because they had good reason to do so, they wanted to? It is ok for someone to rape another because they're lust pointed them in that direction?

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clpo, why do you equate fascism with pro-life? Seems to me that fascist is more synonymous with pro-choice...

Because pro-lifers want to deny women the even more important right to choose.

my feelings are this. Legal or not,people will get abortions. If it's not legal then women will go into some dark alley and get them done anyway(because that would be the only way it could be done) Then the women might die from infection,or worse. If I HAD to make a decession, then I would rather have one dead human than two. So making it legal might be actually saving some lives as well. ponder that for a while

Well, boo-hoo they don't. They can't feel, they can't think, they have no perception, they don't have rights.

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with the same rights as anyone else...

well they should have the same right to life that we have anyway.

clpo, why do you equate fascism with pro-life? Seems to me that fascist is more synonymous with pro-choice...

...I mean we're not the ones who want to deny the highest of natural rights, the right to live, or even the ones who discriminate against one whole group of people, the unborn. Just because they're not able to talk or defend themselves doesn't mean they should be looked down upon, they're unique individuals with the same rights as anyone else...

Got it. And I'm not getting on your case with religion, you've already shown that you have other reasons, but the majority of pro-lifers out there do it because their religion says it's bad.

clpo, i wasnt clear on what you were trying to say, so i asked....

but please dont throw the "religious beliefs card" at me, at least not on this issue....i have shown very well, without bringing the bible into it, why i feel abortion is wrong.

How many of you honestly LOVE life, seriously do you love your life youd rather live your life now than anythign else? If that was the case why do people gamble or play the lotto? Because we all know so many fetuses will be born into to a multi million dollar family.

You're twisting my words into things they were never meant to be. I would be pro-choice no matter what. With the conservative Christians, abortion is evil "because the Bible says so," which is what I disagree with. If you want to ban something, don't point at a book as your reason. Come up with something original.

But we're getting way off the point I wanted to make.

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Religious right = conservative Christians

so you would be fine with banning abortion if it was the scientific community pushing for it?
it is just the fact that conservative christians can not think they have won?
that is worth the killing of the unborn?

Religious right = conservative Christians

That's what I meant by that statement.

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If we let the religious right win this battle, perhaps they'll then fight to outlaw premarital sex, and then homosexuality, and other morally ambiguous things. I don't know about you, but that's what frightens me more than anything. As Euterpe's signature says, not all fascism looks like Hitler.

for me, it is not religious rights, it is human rights....i think though that your argument could go either way....letting abortion continue could open the door to stem cell research (the kind that destroys embyos) if the standard for human life is not set somewhere it just continues to do a downward spiral.

i agree that people should be able to make their own choices about their bodies, just not when it means another human must die.

It doesn't bother me at all. If I or one of my parents had been aborted, that would have been that. I would have never existed. I suppose that could be construed by some as a bad thing, but it doesn't phase me at all.

Most people I know are pro-life because they say abortion denies the fetus a chance at life. But I ask, why does it need one? If the fetus is aborted before being born, what difference does it make? The fetus won't know what it's missing. It probably didn't even know it was alive at all.

But moral and philosophical debates aside, the real reason I'm pro-choice is because I believe in the ability of a person to chose what to do with their bodies, and subsequently anything contained inside them, like fetuses. If you take away one right (that of having an abortion), what could come next? Banning abortion opens the door to other things that could end up becoming illegal. If we let the religious right win this battle, perhaps they'll then fight to outlaw premarital sex, and then homosexuality, and other morally ambiguous things. I don't know about you, but that's what frightens me more than anything. As Euterpe's signature says, not all fascism looks like Hitler.