Abortion: Murder!!
......The "choice" is made when people have sexual relations!!
At conception, that is a human being in there (although 1 fertilized cell), with its' own humanity-soul & its' own developing "body" [whose life is it, anyway?].
Just for the sake of an uninterrupted life-style, no responsibility for the 9 month period (adoption), and no "stretch marks", women (and men, as accomplices) are willing to commit pre-meditated murder! Ironically they, as hypocrites, are willing to file criminal charges against their fellow humans for petty offenses....but not against themselves for a heinous crime !!!

Rape? Incest? It is still murdering a soul that had nothing to do with it!--->ADOPTION, ADOPTION!!
----------------
Abortion choices hurt!
Sunday, Jan. 22, is the 33rd anniversary of a day that reminds me of three of the worst "choices" I ever made. Some may celebrate the anniversary of Roe v. Wade, as I did for many years. For me now, it is a difficult day as I remember the three children whose lives I ended in abortion.
Those three choices were not informed choices. I was never told of the devastation the abortions would cause in my life. Nor were those three choices totally "free". I was pressured by many people and circumstances to abort my three children.
Ultimately, they were my choices, and I do accept responsibility for them. Jan. 22 is now a day when I speak out and say that I regret my abortions. I regret the deaths of Luke Michael, Grace Anne and Benjamin Lawrence. In speaking out, I honor them and work on my healing.
Susan Swander
Waldport, OR
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=15311

quote:

By society, and by most of the world. ... However even if you don’t acknowledge moral law there is still the general understanding of what right and wrong are. Most people would agree that the killing of an innocent child is wrong.

Interestingly enough, I agree that society creates moral law, but I don't recognize that law as "right" or even "wrong". Society's view of right and wrong are fluid depending on the personal opinions of the people who compose the society and on the socio-political climate of a given era. Prior to the 1970s, abortion was something generally considered wrong by society because women were considered "inferior" in a way. They didn't deserve full control over their bodies and society told them that they had to carry children to term. The feminist movement changed the perceptions of society to the point that abortion was legalized because women deserved to have power over their body. It was, in other words, considered "right" by society. It'd probably be more correct to say "less wrong", but shades of gray always complicate matters.

I also agree that the real debate is about whether the fetus is alive or not. This ties in to the "right" and "wrong" views of society. Most people would agree that killing an infant is wrong. But since the jury is still out on whether a fetus is the same as an infant (an infant having already been born), the comparison doesn't work. Society might consider infanticide "wrong", but they don't consider abortion to be infanticide.

quote:

However premarital sex is a major contributor to the number of abortions.

Unprotected premarital sex. I agree that abortions are not a suitable contraceptive. People would be better off using pills or condoms. The problem is that people don't learn about them because the most popular form of sex education in this country relies on telling people to simply not have sex without bothering to explain about the alternatives which can be used to prevent pregnancies and abortions.

Abstinence-only education only works when people actually abstain from sex. We're humans, and not likely to deny our primal desires. Thus, it's more effective to teach about contraceptives so that people who don't want to abstain will know how to prevent pregnancies and ultimately cut down on the number of frivolous abortions.

quote:

No you can't. Just because something has 'always' been considered wrong doesn't make it wrong. Just like something that has always been considered right doesn't make something right.

I would say that the ultimate basis for right and wrong are moral law. However you can also make a case for what is right or wrong based on what the majority of the human race has defined as right or wrong, over the course of history.

quote:

It's like with people in vegetative states. They can't make decison for themsleves so their care goes to the closest realtive.

Yes but the baby is not on artificial life support. The mother is not making the decision to just let the child die; the mother is making the decision to have the life ended. There is a difference between the two. Life support is an artificial not a natural way of sustaining life.

quote:

Brain activity doesn't start until the 9th or 10th week.

Okay and many abortions happen after that period.

quote:

Considered wrong by whom? You didn't answer my question. Nothing is "inherently wrong."

By society, and by most of the world. We could get into moral law, but that’s an entirely different debate, that we have already talked about. However even if you don’t acknowledge moral law there is still the general understanding of what right and wrong are. Most people would agree that the killing of an innocent child is wrong. The debate is really about whether or not the unborn baby is actually alive.

quote:

Besides, married couples get abortions sometimes. Premarital sex obviously isn't the problem there.

However premarital sex is a major contributor to the number of abortions.
People have to realize that there is a chance that the Girl will get pregnant. In many cases no precautions are taken to prevent this. People know the effects of sex, but don’t typically consider them while they are actually engaged in sex.
Two things need to happen. People need to cut down on the amount of people that they have sex with, and people need to start taking precautions if they aren’t ready to have a child.
Abortions are not a good solution to irresponsibility during sex.

Besides, married couples get abortions sometimes. Premarital sex obviously isn't the problem there.

quote:

Originally posted by artemisgirl:
This all goes back to prematial sex. That is really where the problem lies.

I'd say the root of the problem lies at couples who are not ready to have kids not taking some basic precautions. I may just be splitting hairs, but they're important hairs to split.

And again,
This all goes back to prematial sex. That is really where the problem lies.

there are tooooooo many orphins to feed cloth and put a roof over there heads to even think about making any more

quote:

It is always been considered wrong, so you could say that it is inherently wrong. The argument that you were killing the person to end their misery will not stand up in any court of law.

Considered wrong by whom? You didn't answer my question. Nothing is "inherently wrong."

quote:

It is always been considered wrong, so you could say that it is inherently wrong.

No you can't. Just because something has 'always' been considered wrong doesn't make it wrong. Just like something that has always been considered right doesn't make something right.

quote:

The argument that you were killing the person to end their misery will not stand up in any court of law.

It's like with people in vegetative states. They can't make decison for themsleves so their care goes to the closest realtive. An unborn child, or fetus whatever you want to call it, cannot make decisions for itself. Therefore its care should also go to the closest realitive. This of course would be the mother that it is 'living' in.

quote:

Actually that is incorrect the baby is alive and can feel what is happening to it. Modern technology such as advanced sonograms has confirmed this.

Brain activity doesn't start until the 9th or 10th week. (I've read both so I am not positive.)

I'm not sure what your definition of "alive" is.

quote:

But who decides if this is wrong?

It is always been considered wrong, so you could say that it is inherently wrong. The argument that you were killing the person to end their misery will not stand up in any court of law.

quote:

See global health, can it be said that it is a good thing that people die everyday

Okay now apply this argument to real life. Should people be allowed to walk around killing each other for the good of the earth?

quote:

don't think abortion should be the back-up in case the condom breaks,

Exactly. Abortions should defiantly be limited to situations when they are necessary for the mother’s survival. People shouldn’t get an abortion because they were irresponsible in sex and got pregnant. You can’t get pregnant without having sex, if you can’t support a child, doesn’t have sex.

quote:

the choice is made when you're pregnant. end of story.

NOT when you choose to have a sexual relationship.

As ampmaster said you are making the decision to have sex, with the exception of rape. If you don’t want to get pregnant, don’t be irresponsible with sex.

quote:

NO
IT ISN'T ALIVE THE TIME YOU HAVE ABORTION
IT'S JUST A SMALL, FERTILIZED EGG
NOT ALIVE

Actually that is incorrect the baby is alive and can feel what is happening to it. Modern technology such as advanced sonograms has confirmed this.

quote:

it isn't murder when they're not alive

The unborn baby is a human. It is alive and thus by killing it they are ending the life of an innocent. Just look at the name, it is an abortion not a preventive surgery. Aborting means to cut short to end prematurely. Abortion is cutting short a life not preventing life from beginning.

wat r u guys serious child porn? i neva thought dat could happened...wow seriously dis world is going upsite down...i just feel child porn is very immature n redicoulous. parents should b caring their children or else it could turn out 2 a bad situation...

quote:

but how many of those charities would have looked down on her for having premarital sex?

Not many actually, the only one who might even do that is Catholic Charities and all the people I've worked through from that wouldn't look down on any one. Most of these chairites are specifically to help pregnant teens and single women/women who can't afford it. Some might have a christian slant but it's certaintly not their primary one.

quote:

their are plenty of chairities out there who are more then happy to foot the bill

Not to be overly cynical, but how many of those charities would have looked down on her for having premarital sex?

quote:

it all depends on what her insurance was like. If she didn't have any, carrying the baby to term would be insanely expensive. Too expensive for a college student.

most students still are covered by their parents insurance and their are plenty of chairities out there who are more then happy to foot the bill

quote:

say it with me now "adoption" sure your cousin would be unable to party hard at college and screw another loser who runs off at the first sign of trouble but she had plenty of choices

it all depends on what her insurance was like. If she didn't have any, carrying the baby to term would be insanely expensive. Too expensive for a college student.

quote:

the choice is made when you're pregnant. end of story.

NOT when you choose to have a sexual relationship.

Actually it is, you make a decision to screw with out the pill or a condom, you choose to do this when you have sex knowing there is a chance the girl will get pregnant. You choose long before you get knocked up.

quote:

My cousin got pregnant when she was 22, still in university, paying for it herself, and her partner had left her. She had no choice but to abort.

say it with me now "adoption" sure your cousin would be unable to party hard at college and screw another loser who runs off at the first sign of trouble but she had plenty of choices

devie747: In the future, please try to condense all your writing into one post. To maintain the "flow of the boards," we try to limit double and triple-posting (posting two or three times in succession on one thread).

quote:

Originally posted by Nephilem:

quote:

is it more cruel to let a baby go through a world of hate and cruelty or just send it on to heaven.

The baby deserves the chance to live their life. By the reasoning that you just stated all murder should be legal, because murderers are just saving them from troubles on earth.

quote:

I'm going to try to stop with this debate...

Maya. Are you willing to look at this situation with the focus on the baby? Before you finish with this topic, try to see the issue with the perspective on the baby.

it isn't murder when they're not alive

quote:

Originally posted by BellaBabe:
i hate abortion its so stupid the baby is ALIVE IT CAN FEEL!

NO

IT ISN'T ALIVE THE TIME YOU HAVE ABORTION

IT'S JUST A SMALL, FERTILIZED EGG

NOT ALIVE

you don't get it.

the choice is made when you're pregnant. end of story.

NOT when you choose to have a sexual relationship.

I would know. My cousin got pregnant when she was 22, still in university, paying for it herself, and her partner had left her. She had no choice but to abort. YOU DON'T GET IT.