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Now according to your argument there should be no punishment because after all the person wanted to die.

First off, as Shade pointed out, that section involves helping another person commit suicide. It says nothing about doing it yourself. Secondly, I find it highly unusual that suicide should be illegal at all (as it is in some places). But the law can be flawed, especially when it's very old.

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Self Mutilation is in most cases a civil offence, more often warranting physiatrists, then police.

Yes. Because you can and should be treated for that. Treatment for an unwanted pregnancy is an abortion.

And I responded to that:

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there are lots of things that are illegal, the question is, should they be? shouldn't you have control over your own life?

My point that was apparently missed was that people can’t do what ever they want with their bodies.
Self Mutilation is in most cases a civil offence, more often warranting physiatrists, then police.

There use to be a law that it was illegal to sneeze or cough inside a train. I think it was never changed. Anyways, it's off topic, but this is what this reminded me of.

I made a point and I didn't know it? Neat.

I think this should indicate that laws do not necessarily make sense.

*shrugs* It's not my law.

but if you're already dead...?

Actually, suicide is illegal in some places, too. Not the attempt of suicide. They deserve love and doctors. But the success of suicide.

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Self-Mutilation is also illegal.

It is?

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Murder is the wrongful killing of an innocent.

...Or anyone else? Murder is the killing of anyone without due cause.

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So I can do anything I want with my body? Well take a look at this part of the Suicide Act

Well, haha. That's not about your body; it's about you doing something to another person's body.

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Self-Mutilation is also illegal.

Where do you get off saying that?

there are lots of things that are illegal, the quesion is, should they be? shouldn't you have control over your own life?

So I can do anything I want with my body? Well take a look at this part of the Suicide Act.

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Section 2(1) of the Suicide Act 1961:

A person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the suicide of another, or an attempt by another to commit suicide, shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.

Now according to your argument there should be no punishment because after all the person wanted to die. So the destruction of yourself is wrong, and anyone who had anything to do with your self-destruction, can face criminal charges.
So people can’t do what ever they want with their body. Self-Mutilation is also illegal.
So why do we allow them to kill their unborn child.

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and the mom gave you her permission.

And therein lies the difference. In terms of abortion, it's not murder if permission is granted, because, as I said, the mother has the ultimate say over her body and anything included inside it.

Yes, I know you can be charged for that. That is irrelevant.

Did you yourself not say that the law has nothing to do with the morality of killing?

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Nor have we established what murder is.

Murder is the wrongful killing of an innocent.
Wrongful is the act of having no moral or legal claim.
Did you know that if a pregnant women is murdered, or seriously injured, the guilty party can actual be charged with the killing of the Mom and/or the baby inside of her. Another example would be if I hit a pregnant lady with a car, and the accident caused the Baby to die. I could be charged with killing her baby. So apparently it is murder to kill an unborn baby, unless you are an abortion doctor, and the mom gave you her permission.

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what do you suggest?

Not attacking abortion clinics would be a nice start.

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Based on the last bunch of posts I am assuming that we agree that Murder should be Illegal. Abortion is Murder, so it should also be illegal, whether people will break the law or not is really not relevant, to a discussion on should the law be passed, people break laws all the time the point is to have a punishment in place when they do.

Yet it is still their choice what to do. Murder is always a choice. People will do it whether it is illegal or not. And the child is still a part of the mother, dependent on her, technically an extention of her... I say give her the choice to kill or not. She will regret it afterwards, no matter what... And she'll most likely never do it again.

Go clpo!

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Based on the last bunch of posts I am assuming that we agree that Murder should be Illegal. Abortion is Murder, so it should also be illegal, whether people will break the law or not is really not relevant, to a discussion on should the law be passed, people break laws all the time the point is to have a punishment in place when they do.

lol you are so funny. I don't think murder is always wrong, so if we're going to call abortion murder I still think it's ok. I don't care what you call it. it is what it is. anyway I don't have anything else to say clpo already explained it all.

I cannot justify nor defend the act of abortion. Trying to do that is simply impossible because I like it no more than the next person.

However, I will defend the mother's right to do with her body (and everything contained within it, living or nonliving) what she pleases. If the baby wants to have a say, it can jump out of the mother's stomach (à la Alien) and sue the hell out of someone. But until that child is born, the mother's right to choice far outweighs the child's right to life. All life may be intrinsically valuable to some people, but until it can survive without being physically tethered to another being, I fail to see why it should force that being to make certain choices.

Note: this is why abortions are only legal during the first trimester, when a fetus cannot possibly survive birth. Just thought that might be of interest to someone.