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Based on the last bunch of posts I am assuming that we agree that Murder should be Illegal. Abortion is Murder, so it should also be illegal, whether people will break the law or not is really not relevant, to a discussion on should the law be passed, people break laws all the time the point is to have a punishment in place when they do.

We have not yet established that abortion is murder.
Nor have we established what murder is. Clearly it is not any taking of a human life, as killing in self-defense or in combat is not considered murder. So, murder might be defined as the "wrongful" killing of a human being. What is "wrongful"?

Based on the last bunch of posts I am assuming that we agree that Murder should be Illegal. Abortion is Murder, so it should also be illegal, whether people will break the law or not is really not relevant, to a discussion on should the law be passed, people break laws all the time the point is to have a punishment in place when they do.

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Perhaps you want to rethink how you worded that statement. It sounds wholly illogical.

If a person wants to screw up their own life, go ahead. But when what they're doing starts to affect the life of another person, that's were we have to draw the line.

Hopefully that was a little better.

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Yes anybody has the potential to do much good or evil in their life, my point is you cant kill people just because you think that they will live bad lives.

That is not the argument for abortion, or at least not entirely. You make it sound so simple. Have you been pregnant with a child you couldn't have? No, right? Now before you turn this around on me and say "have you" I'll respond, I haven't. But I have friends who've gotten pregnant at 16 and 17 and had to have abortions, and it was not something they enjoyed or wanted to do, AT ALL. But they did it because they had to. So I think if you don't want to have an abortion that is GREAT, but you should not be able to impose this particular view on others.

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I never said that we could not also work to change how people feel towards abortion, and there are things that people could do independently to help fix this problem.

what do you suggest?

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I don't try to tell people how to live their lives. I just think they should give the child a chance to live. I'm not saying they should care for it, just let it live.

Perhaps you want to rethink how you worded that statement. It sounds wholly illogical.

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Well abortion is not exactly the safest operation in the first, place. Abortion is wrong no mater how you do it and it is not enough to say that we are giving people a safe way to kill a innocent baby, because that as fare as I am concerned is adding in a murder.
Also if people are found to be continuing with abortions then the law can take action.
Finally there is a need for people to help people who would have otherwise gotten an abortion. These jobs are already being filled by a growing number of pro- life people.

Don't cite the dangers of abortion to add to your argument. You might as well argue against triple bypass surgery.

Counseling is not enough for some people. You are insisting upon forcing what may be a drastic alteration to the quality of a person's life, and, as consolation, suggesting that people see pro-life counselors.

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What I don't understand is how some people feel they have the right to tell people what is right or wrong and how to live their lives.

I don't try to tell people how to live their lives. I just think they should give the child a chance to live. I'm not saying they should care for it, just let it live.

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One simple question: Should Murder be illegal?

Well yes. ( shrugs ) I already believed abortion is murder. But I really can't tell someone how to live their life, can I? I am not them. And I don't know what crap is going on inside their head. But whether murder is illegal or not, people will continue to do it. It is human nature. We are lying, blind, decietful murderers. And we know it.

Murder is a part of humanity. It is in our own nature. Murder was the first action in the bible to be defined as "Sin".

And as I have already said, if murder is abortion, it is probably the most acceptable form, so I would say, Yes, abortion should be legal.

If we are going to ban abortion, we may as well ban angry, depressed, and desperate people as well.

You missing the whole point here. The goal is to improve mankind. Not chain them up.

i think if one person decides to pull down thier pants and the other person pulls up thier skirt then they need to take the responsibility of taking care of the child or at least give the child to someone who wants it...they dont have to murder thier own child..(because thats what thier really doing).thats what i think

No. Murder should be perfectly legal so we can settle disputes in our own way and get these annoying "is it murder" arguments out of the way.

(Let's see how many people think I'm serious before they notice this note.)

One simple question: Should Murder be illegal?

Nephilem, I really do not understand your logic. First, forces everyone to do what is right, then try to teach them right from wrong.

Honestly, is this how christ taught? Did he lobby for, say, making hatred illegal in Israel? After all he said it was the very same as murder. So why not make it illegal if it is wrong.

Why don't you move to a muslim country and feel what it is like for people who do not believe what you believe, make your beliefs illegal.

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ll that I was saying is that it is also important to make abortion illegal,

Why?

What I don't understand is how some people feel they have the right to tell people what is right or wrong and how to live their lives.

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Yes we should.

Forgive me for asking why.

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Yes anybody has the potential to do much good or evil in their life, my point is you cant kill people just because you think that they will live bad lives.

And my point is you can't save them just because you think they will live good lives. And since we've both established our opinions, it's just Good vs Neutrality here, so it's useless to continue arguing about it.

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For example if I was too remove all punishments for breaking the speed limit, how many people would follow it?

Few, until they realise they would be safer going at a slower speed.

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But it increases the amount of people who do it dangerously.

Well abortion is not exactly the safest operation in the first, place. Abortion is wrong no mater how you do it and it is not enough to say that we are giving people a safe way to kill a innocent baby, because that as fare as I am concerned is adding in a murder.
Also if people are found to be continuing with abortions then the law can take action.
Finally there is a need for people to help people who would have otherwise gotten an abortion. These jobs are already being filled by a growing number of pro- life people.

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Actually making something illegal does decrease the amount of people who do it.

But it increases the amount of people who do it dangerously. If you were to outlaw abortion, people who desperately need (or want) abortions would simply turn to back-alley "doctors" armed with coat-hangers, a far cry from sterile abortion clinics with doctors who know what they're doing.

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Should we let them live because there is a possibility they will have a good life?

Yes we should.

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There's just as much chance this baby might be the next Hitler or the antichrist as much as there's a chance it could have a cure for aids.

Yes anybody has the potential to do much good or evil in their life, my point is you cant kill people just because you think that they will live bad lives.

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Making something illegal does not make bad people good, or bad decisions harder to make. People will do what they want, regardless of consequence.

Actually making something illegal does decrease the amount of people who do it. For example if I was too remove all punishments for breaking the speed limit, how many people would follow it? Not as many people as do now, I can assure you of that.
I never said that it would make bad people good; my point was that it will help to decrees how many people get an abortion.

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The only way to make people better as a whole and right decisions more obvious, I would hope would be clear to you, of all people.

I never said that we could not also work to change how people feel towards abortion, and there are things that people could do independently to help fix this problem, all that I was saying is that it is also important to make abortion illegal, just like under is illegal.

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Ever hear about partial birth abortions.

It is not the most common' type of abortion.

Actually, partial birth abortions are illegal (to my knowledge, at least). Abortions are only legal during the first trimester before a fetus is very developed.

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So we should make murder legal, because after all, people still do it anyway. Actually making something illegal and having a punishment for doing it decreases the number of people who do it.

I think you and I both know that's not what I said. And let suppose murder was legal... would you murder? Do you know anyone that would? I would hope as a christian you would have more faith in humanity.

How about instead of attempting to govern everyone's moral decision making from fear of legislation, to obligation to mankind, and purpose of life?

Making something illegal does not make bad people good, or bad decisions harder to make. People will do what they want, regardless of consequence. The only way to make people better as a whole and right decisions more obvious, I would hope would be clear to you, of all people.

Your right to vote is not your ability to help anyone better themselves... that has never and should never be the role of government. And if you believe so, I hope one day you see why our church ( the body of christ) is so weak now.