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And you stole it from me. So there.

Touché. I was wondering where exactly I'd picked it up. I just seem to gravitate to stuff like that.

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Originally posted by Shade:
It was created to establish physical development of the baby. The fetus is just one stage of development, just as embryo, or adolescent are used. Just a term. Nothing more. Why are we basing life and death on terms?

We are not.

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I'm guessing Nephilem falls into the large category of people who call themselves "pro-life" but yet are pro-death when it comes to criminals.

Indeed, they should be called "pro-female-responsibility".

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You stole my order schtick.

And you stole it from me. So there.

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And the other main point is the protection of life. Remember that these babies are people are they deserve to be protected.

That's not order, friend. Refrain from using that in an argument about "order." Also, we're talking about the order of society as a whole, to keep it "in line" so to speak. Pregnancy has little to do with that.

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As I have already pointed out on this thread there is a big deference between killing an innocent, unborn child, and executing a hardened criminal, who would likely kill again if released.

Maybe we should give everyone in the world personality tests to see if they're evil enough to be a "criminal" and humanely put to sleep with the death penalty. Wouldn't that save more lives? You fail to think about the possibility of people waiting to die who have not killed, are not hardened criminals, were there by mistake, have murdered by mistake. Possibilities. Look at the whole picture.

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People aren’t as shocked by abortion if they here that they are killing an unborn child.

Not every "Pro-choice" person believes it's a "fetus."

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I honestly do not believe the name "fetus" was just invented for you fucking nuts, I'm sorry I don't believe that.

It was created to establish physical development of the baby. The fetus is just one stage of development, just as embryo, or adolescent are used. Just a term. Nothing more. Why are we basing life and death on terms?

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Originally posted by Nephilem:
Because I'm not. There is a huge difference between executing a mass murderer, and killing an innocent baby. A vast difference. Why is execution justified? First all life in prison does is lengthens the period of killing, while placing a burden on the country and allowing the criminal a chance to escape. Also the few people in America who do get the death penalty are the worst of the worst criminals. Calculated killers, who absolutely no regard for anything.

Like clpo said, the criminal is still a human being. So "thou shall not kill" applies to unborn babies and not to criminals? Okay...that makes a lot of sense Nephilem. At least just admit that you are a hypocrite and this argument can be over. Or else, change your name, don't call yourself pro-life but anti-abortion, or does that not sound as nice and moving?

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I think the mother should have a right to choose what she does with the fetus(not baby)

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It is a baby whether you want to think of it as that or not. Sever times the abortion has failed and the baby has survived, once again illustrating that we are killing people. Fetus is basically a cover term that is always used now to make abortion sound more human. People aren’t as shocked by abortion if they here that they are killing an unborn child.

I honestly do not believe the name "fetus" was just invented for you fucking nuts, I'm sorry I don't believe that. Find me a source. The reason I said fetus, not baby, is to distinguish, I think the mother can do choose obviously what she wants to do with the fetus(and up to a certain point obviously), not with the baby(so once it's born).

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It makes you a hypocrite because you say it is wrong to kill a mass killer, but fine to kill a little baby. So you say that killing a human is wrong, and then turn right back around and say that it is fine, if the mother wants to.

There's a major difference you are failing to acknowledge, I never claimed to be pro-life, EVER. The fetus, is inside the mothers body, so no one should be able to force her to do anything with her own fucking body. It depends completely on her, whereas the murderer is an independent person.

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There is a huge difference between executing a mass murderer, and killing an innocent baby. A vast difference.

They're both humans, aren't they?

Also, I'd like to point out that I can indeed make this point, since I am both pro-choice and in favor of the death penalty.

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You could say that it breaks the way that pregnancy is supposed to work. Purposefully breaking a natural system.

Using this logic, it would be bad to break any natural system, like having sex with anyone for the simple purpose of procreation, or wearing glasses to correct your vision, etc.

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Bullshit. Why can't you just admit that you are a fucking hypocrite?

Because I'm not. There is a huge difference between executing a mass murderer, and killing an innocent baby. A vast difference. Why is execution justified? First all life in prison does is lengthens the period of killing, while placing a burden on the country and allowing the criminal a chance to escape. Also the few people in America who do get the death penalty are the worst of the worst criminals. Calculated killers, who absolutely no regard for anything.

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I think the mother should have a right to choose what she does with the fetus(not baby)

It is a baby whether you want to think of it as that or not. Sever times the abortion has failed and the baby has survived, once again illustrating that we are killing people. Fetus is basically a cover term that is always used now to make abortion sound more human. People aren’t as shocked by abortion if they here that they are killing an unborn child.

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so how does my NOT supporting the death penalty make me a hypocrite? Explain the relation, please, as I did not understand you.

It makes you a hypocrite because you say it is wrong to kill a mass killer, but fine to kill a little baby. So you say that killing a human is wrong, and then turn right back around and say that it is fine, if the mother wants to.

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Originally posted by Nephilem:
Now when you look at things like the death penalty, you will find that these activities are often used to protect life. For example the death penalty is used to stop dangerous people from killing more people

Bullshit. Why can't you just admit that you are a fucking hypocrite? When you are talking about giving someone the death penalty the other option is life in prison. So where's the danger? Also, it has NOT been proven to be a deterrent, so there goes that argument. The only argument for the death penalty, is pure vengence, which our judicial system should not be representative of(in my opinion obviously). Quit making up arguments. If you want to say, "since he's a criminal I think he should suffer and die" fine by me, but don't pretend it serves any purpose besides vengence, and don't dare pretend you aren't a hypocrite for calling yourself pro-life. I never said I was pro-life, I think the mother should have a right to choose what she does with the fetus(not baby), so how does my NOT supporting the death penalty make me a hypocrite? Explain the relation, please, as I did not understand you.

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Anyways, show me how abortion makes society less orderly.

You could say that it breaks the way that pregnancy is supposed to work. Purposefully breaking a natural system. And the other main point is the protection of life. Remember that these babies are people are they deserve to be protected.

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On a related note, you don't happen to support the death penalty, do you? Or war? Or anything else that involves failing to protect the lives of certain people?

We already went over this, but whatever. Now when you look at things like the death penalty, you will find that these activities are often used to protect life. For example the death penalty is used to stop dangerous people from killing more people, and wars can be fought to save people, examples under this san range all over history. Basically the death penalty can be misused, and wars can be for evil purposes, but that does not mean that all cases of the death penalty are wrong, or that everyone who participates in wars is bad.

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I'm guessing Nephilem falls into the large category of people who call themselves "pro-life" but yet are pro-death when it comes to criminals. The hypocrisy(sp?) just amazes me.

As I have already pointed out on this thread there is a big deference between killing an innocent, unborn child, and executing a hardened criminal, who would likely kill again if released. Also remember that the death penalty is not commonly used in the US. I am not trying to defend the death penalty in other parts of the world, because it is misused in several countries.

Also I have already pointed out if you are going to make this argument; it also becomes a point against your position. You say that it would be wrong to execute a child molester that sexually abuses, tortures, and then kills children, and does this repeatedly, but it would be okay to kill an innocent unborn baby. So if I am a hypocrite so are you.

I'm guessing Nephilem falls into the large category of people who call themselves "pro-life" but yet are pro-death when it comes to criminals. The hypocrisy(sp?) just amazes me.

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The laws are there to maintain order and to protect people. Currently the law is failing to protect these young babies.

You stole my order schtick. Anyways, show me how abortion makes society less orderly.

On a related note, you don't happen to support the death penalty, do you? Or war? Or anything else that involves failing to protect the lives of certain people?

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you should get to make decisions over other people's lives, and have a major impact on other people's lives. That's disgusting.

But abortion does just that to the Babies? It a big thing to have your life ended, and that’s what these doctors are doing, they are ending the life of a young human child.

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i think people should shut up and let the women decide. you cant pass a law telling someone they dont have the right to choose because of an opinion.

In that case we should also make it legal to commit murder, and theft and everything else and let the people decide. Obviously this is ridicules. The laws are there to maintain order and to protect people. Currently the law is failing to protect these young babies.

i think people should shut up and let the women decide. you cant pass a law telling someone they dont have the right to choose because of an opinion.

just like gay marriage being seen as immoral and people wanting it illegal. get the picture?

we have no right. period.

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Originally posted by deppwifey2007:
I agree. Abuse in the adopted home does occur but not as often as you would like to think.

okay...what?

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Why would anybody go through all of this to adopt a child so you could beat them.

I don't know...maybe they're just fucking crazy nuts? Or also, don't you get paid for taking in children, not adopting but having a foster home? Like don't they give you money for the kids or something? There could be many reasons...maybe you just think hitting is the way to educate. Who knows...

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You think that it would be better to just kill a child instead of letting it live and go to a good home because the home could possibly be an abusive one? How closed minded is that?

That's bullshit. What's close-minded is to be against abortion and think that just because you think that, you should get to make decisions over other people's lives, and have a major impact on other people's lives. That's disgusting.

I agree. Abuse in the adopted home does occur but not as often as you would like to think. I know from experience. I grew up in foster care and "Adoptive homes" There were many times that I was supposed to be adopted that didn't work out but it wasn't because of abuse. Plus, do you know what future adoptive parents have to do to even be considered to be an adoptive parent. First, you have to fill out a crapload of paperwork, than once you do that CPS has to do a home study and they study your home and make sure it is a place that a child could live in. Then you have to keep the child for 6 months as a foster child in order to make sure you are right for the child and/or the child is right for you. This whole process can take up to 2 years so let me ask you a question-Why would anybody go through all of this to adopt a child so you could beat them. I didn't even mention the training you have to go through. Managing problem children, CPR, Restraint technique, and so much more. So why would anybody go through that to adopt a child and beat them? I don't know but I do know that not that many people do. I am not going to say that it doesn't happen because I would be lying but it doesn't happen as much as you might think. Let me get this straight. You think that it would be better to just kill a child instead of letting it live and go to a good home because the home could possibly be an abusive one? How closed minded is that? For one you fail to see anything good. For two, I have been through so much abuse it isn't even funny and it has made me the person that I am today so I am not going to complain with the "Poor me" sob story that most people give. When I was going through all the abuse from my maternal grandparents, my pastors son and my ex boyfriend, it was my adoptive parents who were there for me. I think that is the farthest from abuse possible.

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Originally posted by Nephilem:

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Neppy is my pet name for you, I hope you like it.

Is Nephilem to dark for you?

no, I just think you seem more like a Neppy. ^.^

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Neppy is my pet name for you, I hope you like it.

Is Nephilem to dark for you?

If you want a good fiction book that deals with nephilem you should read Byron Huggins book Nightbringer

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Actually, before a certain point in the pregnancy, the fetus couldn't even survive on life support.

I said that it could not survive on life support until it reached a later stage of the pregnancy. My point was that in a later stage you could say that the baby is dependent because it is in the mother, but it could actually survive outside the mother of life support. So this leads to the question, when does the baby become a person.

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that this dependency could be replaced with extensive life support.

Actually, before a certain point in the pregnancy, the fetus couldn't even survive on life support. I mean, there's a reason there's so much amniotic fluid. I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that a fetus only a couple months old couldn't possibly survive outside the womb, especially considering how some rather vital parts of it haven't yet developed...

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Neppy is my pet name for you, I hope you like it.

Haha. I like the sound of Neppy.

Neppy is my pet name for you, I hope you like it.