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Originally posted by LoveTheRainbow:

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It's childish.

This whole debate is childish.

Well that's an attitude that'll lead toward constructive discussion. Again, childish. I know it's YOUTHnoise but come on.

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It's childish.

This whole debate is childish.

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Originally posted by LoveTheRainbow:

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And what was that about comparing using Tylonol and having an abortion? WTF?

Neph said that abortion =Legalized murder so I was just pointing out Tylonol=legalized drug.

No, I know you were doing that. But seriously. Murder and drug use aren't even comparable in the legal world. And what you're Tylonol is to drug use what reckless negligence is to murder. It's childish.

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And what was that about comparing using Tylonol and having an abortion? WTF?

Neph said that abortion =Legalized murder so I was just pointing out Tylonol=legalized drug.

You know, the one thing that always gets me about these debates is how flippantly pro-legalization people treat the fetus. Seriously, I've explained enough times to several of you why it's perfectly rational to consider the fetus to be a full human being.

And what was that about comparing using Tylonol and having an abortion? WTF?

What was the point of all that?

True, I mean, non of it really matters. If women want they should be able to kill the child when its 1 year old. Its her child, so who cares? I mean, it doesn't actually matter - does it?
And drugs. It doesn't actually matter if all these people destroy their lives with drugs. Its their right you know, we shouldn't care.

OK, Im going to lay out some facts here (pay attention people, these are what facts look like).
In Russia, the birth rate was 1.2 children per women, last time I checked. It is estimated that there are as many abortions as births in Russia.
Western Caucasian women have less than 2 children on average. Muslim women have 6+.
Australian Caucasian women have less than 2 children. Australias Asian population has more than 2 children per woman.
In America, all people of coloured races have superior birth rates to the whites - who have less than 2 children per woman. Whites become a minority by 2050, and may they enjoy the same lifestyle white south-africans do.
In Japan, the women also have less than 2 children. Abortion is perfectly legal and part of their birth-control.
The japanese have the luxury of fixing the problem whenever they wish. But the insane west, with its communist attitude towards its nations borders, allowing people from foreign races flood its countries (which is of course, virtuous!), does not.

In the end, our society, with no where to go but backwards, will be uterly stuffed. The left-wingers, steadily crushing all of the vices that have brought us here, will get their wish.
Our society has no mechanisms to stave them off, it supports them instead, and they will bring it to its knees.
But yeah, who cares!

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You have your belief that abortion is right in spite of those facts.

First, I don't believe abortion is "right." I believe it's justifiable.

Second, I don't believe that in spite of the facts. There is nothing implicit about murder that always makes it wrong. That's a very subjective idea. For instance, self defense can be considered murder. War can be considered murder. The death penalty can be considered murder. Need I go on? It all depends on the circumstances. I don't support abortions in every conceivable circumstance, in case you missed where I said that before.

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Abortion kills innocent babies.

So? Washing your hands kills millions of innocent bacteria, but you don't see anyone complaining about that, do you? You'll have to do better than that.

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Abortion = legalized murder.

War = legalized murder (according to some). You still have yet to prove to me how murder is always wrong, regardless of the circumstances. Unconvincing.

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Abortion is detrimental to the mothers.

Having kids can be detrimental to the mothers, as well. Heck, eating can be detrimental. Driving can be detrimental. Having sex can be detrimental. Are we to outlaw anything that--heaven forbid!--could make the mom feel sad for a while?

Anyways, to clarify: abortions are not always detrimental. In order for that to be a very convincing point, you need to show how every single abortion ever performed had adverse psychological effects on the mother. I already know this isn't the case, so your point is rather dull.

So, after all that, do I feel like I should change my mind? Hmm, no. I think you'll find that your life might be a bit easier if you stop trying to change my mind to conform to your beliefs. I thought I had already established how my opinion is just that: mine.

Euterpe=Wins

Abortion: YOURMOM.

I think that ends this conversation quite succinctly.

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Abortion = legalized murder.

So...

Tylonol=Legalized drug.

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What facts are we talking about? I've already addressed how I don't care if the fetus is a person. I don't care that it's murder.

Those are the facts. My point was that you don’t care what the facts are. You have your belief that abortion is right in spite of those facts.

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I'd like to see why you think I should.

You should change your mind because:

Abortion kills innocent babies.

Abortion = legalized murder.

Abortion is detrimental to the mothers.

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So basically you have you opinion in spite of the facts

What facts are we talking about? I've already addressed how I don't care if the fetus is a person. I don't care that it's murder. I thought those were the only facts we had to deal with (since the general pro-choice stance either denies that fetuses are human or that killing them is murder).

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I can show you why you should change your mind.

I'd like to see why you think I should.

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I can’t force you to change you mind, but I can show you why you should change your mind.

You can't fight apathy with compelling stories or "truth."

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Oh no! I'm going to have to bring back the "clpo not clop" picture...

Sorry

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I thought I had said this before, but yes, I realize abortion results in the death of a fetus. I just don't care.

So basically you have you opinion in spite of the facts. It doesn’t matter to you how defendable the position is, you defend it because that’s what you believe. I can’t force you to change you mind, but I can show you why you should change your mind.

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Originally posted by Nephilem:
Clop, do you base your opinions on what you want to believe, or what is true?

Oh no! I'm going to have to bring back the "clpo not clop" picture...

Anyways, I base my opinions on whatever I see fit. It may be beliefs, it may be facts, it may be just because I want to spite someone for the heck of it.

So, with regards to this particular debate, you're not going to change my mind that women should have the last say on what they do to their bodies. I won't deny that abortion is killing something. However, there are certain circumstances in which I don't condemn killing. Abortion is one of those circumstances. Well, kind of. I have my own guidelines as to what kind of abortions are wrong (frivolous ones) and justifiable (necessary ones). The point is: no matter what you say, you're not going to change that opinion.

I thought I had said this before, but yes, I realize abortion results in the death of a fetus. I just don't care.

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We've already established that opinions are not going to be changed in this debate.

Clop, do you base your opinions on what you want to believe, or what is true?

I think the topic of abortion is always a difficult one to discuss because there are strong arguements made by both sides.

I honestly am not sure where I stand on this topic, i have heard both sides, and i beleive that it is up to the individual to decide.

So I'm Pro Choice, because whether it is really "killing a child" or not, people will make the choice no matter what laws are in place. Either in a safe sterile inviroment, or some place underground.

murder is not sweet it is bad we shoudn't be able to chose who lives and who dies

actually most likely if the person is in an coma state and no one claims her baby they abort it its wrong you might as well just guide people into the office and kill them because look at all the prisoners in jail for murdering we are no better then them we should be the ones also in jail