It's not an attack if it's true. I've found at least three sources which back up my claims, from the Daily Campus, the Chicago Tribune, and Time magazine. All allege that these "crisis pregnancy centers" tell abortion-seeking mothers that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer (disproved years ago), falsely advertise abortions and abortion-related care, and show people graphic pictures of partial-birth abortions, the kind which rarely happen these days. Unfair scare tactics? I think so.

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But these organizations use scare tactics to prevent those abortions.
so they'll do whatever it takes to make the woman afraid of having one,

Scare tactics, do whatever it takes? You are making some interesting attacks on these pro-life groups, can you back them up?

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What? Abortion is legal last I checked. Also if you did legalize murder would that necessarily affect other crimes like rape?

I believe the point that you maid was that crime rates dropped once abortion was made legal. My point was, so what? Crime rates will always drop after you legalize something that was illegal. I listing several things that we could legalize.

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Originally posted by RaceDriver205:
Im sorry, I wasn't aware you were 'someone'. Of course, we should all support your side only, cos otherwise we are idiots and don't have intelligent opinions (you one-sided twat).

Firstly, refrain from name-calling because it makes you seem far less intelligent than you already come off as.

I never said a pro-life argument was idiotic, you just made it seem so. Most pro-life advocates can come up with rational, slightly dogmatic, but mostly valid arguments. I don't agree with them, of course, but I appreciate them. Yours, however, was an invasion of the privacy of every woman in this country, and a mostly pointless rant.

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Sure, I approve of people like you aborting their children. Less filth in the gene pool. (Take that you derogatory SOB).

You don't know anything about me, kiddo. But that in and of itself puts holes in your argument. People who you don't like should have abortions, but others cannot? Tsk tsk.

Besides, I would never abort my own children. Not because of any emotional or religious reason, simply because having children will be an intelligent decision on my part. Unless, of course I'm raped. In which case the fetus will be promptly aborted because it was not my decision, nor do I want to populate the Earth with a bastard child.

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Maybe we should say its OK for people to cut off their arms. Im mean, they have a right! Its their body! Who are we to say thats a sick thing to do? Maybe when people destroy themselves with meth, its their right? Who are we to say meth should be illegal? Maybe when someone wants to kill themself, who are we to step in and say "No! Thats wrong! You should live!" - its their god damn body and they can do what they choose!

Your sarcasm is moot because that's exactly right. Meth (and other hardcore drugs) are illegal because they promote violence to others, self-harm, and are responsible for thousands of deaths every year. And yes, if I want to cut off my arm, that is my decision. Just as it's my decision to cut my hair, fix my nose, get a boob job, get my tubes tied, remove my uterus completely, or anything of the like.

Yes, abortions are "thousands of deaths too", blah blah...but that argument holds no water unless the person you're arguing with believes a zygote or a fetus is a person. I do not. Most pro-choice advocates do not. It's the reason why we debate.

Moreover, I was simply trying to show you that an "emotion-only" argument is pointless. Back up statements with some facts, even if those are biblical in nature, and you have an argument. Impose a self-righteous tirade on 50% of the population, and you're just digging yourself a hole.

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Why would you deny me a right to do with my body what I please? So who are YOU to tell me anything about MY decisions, MY body, and MY uterus and what it contains? You're no one. So back the fuck off. On the other hand, you're a little bit of an idiot and every pro-life advocate's argument gets hurt when you type. I'd refrain and leave the debating to those with intelligent opinions.

Im sorry, I wasn't aware you were 'someone'. Of course, we should all support your side only, cos otherwise we are idiots and don't have intelligent opinions (you one-sided twat). Back the fuck off? Sure, I approve of people like you aborting their children. Less filth in the gene pool. (Take that you derogatory SOB).

Maybe we should say its OK for people to cut off their arms. Im mean, they have a right! Its their body! Who are we to say thats a sick thing to do? Maybe when people destroy themselves with meth, its their right? Who are we to say meth should be illegal? Maybe when someone wants to kill themself, who are we to step in and say "No! Thats wrong! You should live!" - its their god damn body and they can do what they choose!

So we going to play nice Uter-pee?

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Yes that is a fact, but all they did was legalize a crime.

What? Abortion is legal last I checked. Also if you did legalize murder would that necessarily affect other crimes like rape? The fact is that abortion isn't a crime....

Emotion Only:

Why would you deny me a right to do with my body what I please? I can wipe my own ass, regulate my period, shave my legs, and I don't need anyone's permission to do so. So who are YOU to tell me anything about MY decisions, MY body, and MY uterus and what it contains? You're no one. So back the fuck off.


On the other hand, you're a little bit of an idiot and every pro-life advocate's argument gets hurt when you type. I'd refrain and leave the debating to those with intelligent opnions.

You know what? Im going to try to approach this one with emotion only.

Why would any of you want to support this act? Tearing a womans child out of her? Has television desensitised you all from horrors that much? Just because that woman is silly or afraid, and is worried about having to bring up a child herself or not willing to fulfill her responsibility to that child.
What kind of people are we to encourage her to stop that childs life short, with our jibberish about a womans right to do so. And how can we make out that we are doing good by allowing these things to happen?

My stance? Some disgusting over-the-top liberals need medicine and vigorous physiciatric proceedures. Except in rape, abortion is an evil. No, im not even religous.

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Thankfully there are a rising number of organizations that help women who might otherwise have an abortion.

But these organizations use scare tactics to prevent those abortions. They don't present all of the facts. They want women to avoid abortions, so they'll do whatever it takes to make the woman afraid of having one, regardless of whether they're telling the whole truth or not.

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It is a fact that, when abortion rates went up, crime rates went down.

Yes that is a fact, but all they did was legalize a crime. If I legalized, murder, theft, and rape, crime rates would also drop. Just because crime rates dropped does not mean that legalizing that action was a good idea.

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One could argue that mothers who could not properly raise a baby or knew what to do (like how to put a child up for adoption or they had no one to gie them advice) had an abortion.

If the mother does not know what to do or can not support the Baby, she needs help not the death of her child. Thankfully there are a rising number of organizations that help women who might otherwise have an abortion.

It is a fact that, when abortion rates went up, crime rates went down. One could argue that mothers who could not properly raise a baby or knew what to do (like how to put a child up for adoption or they had no one to gie them advice) had an abortion.

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But you failed to state that most of them are A) already dead or B) harmful to the mother.

How can an abortion doctor kill a baby if it is already dead?

As for harmful to the mother if the pregnancy will cause the death of the mother then the pregnancy can be terminated, but otherwise the pregnancy should not be terminated.

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It's all bull.

There is a legal precedent for the child being considered alive, so the question is why there is this exception when it comes to abortion?

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As LTR said, those 11% are abortions performed as a necessity (life or death kind of necessity).

So are all of those abortions life and death situations? I would like to see some evidence to support that point.

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This is, of course, unrealistic.

It is not completely unrealistic, for instance there could be harder penalties for rapists, and a reduction sex involvement for minors. You mentioned sex education, so when do you think that this sex education should begin? Sex education at a young age is typically more harmful then good.

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Of course they should. But we can't impose that belief upon everyone, for not everyone shares it. We must allow room for individuality. We must have laws that protect the person's individual rights, not rule what the masses say.

I understand your position, however while we have to protect individuals right this applies to all people. If you allow one person to kill another you are trampling on the rights of the baby who was killed. This is why murder is illegal you don’t have the right to kill another person under the banner of personal freedom and personal rights.

uh......thanks

I like your hat.

Has anyone freakenomics? In it the auther makes some interesting, pro-choice statements that he then backs up with fact. It would be wise for people of both pro-choice, pro-life, and indifferent views to read....

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These are innocent babies that can not defend themselves, and they should also have defense.

Of course they should. But we can't impose that belief upon everyone, for not everyone shares it. We must allow room for individuality. We must have laws that protect the person's individual rights, not rule what the masses say.

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I did not say that it had to be a large part of the percentage; I said that it was a large number. Thousand of babies are a large number of babies.

As LTR said, those 11% are abortions performed as a necessity (life or death kind of necessity). They aren't "Oh, I just decided I don't want to have a kid just yet" abortions, which are the ones you should be most concerned about stopping.

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Granted it would be better if a people did not have sex unless they were planning to have a baby

This is, of course, unrealistic. The best solution to decreasing the amount of unwanted babies is to implement proper sex education. Condoms and birth control pills do wonders at preventing unwanted kids. But if people don't know about them, they'll just have at it unprotected and then have abortions or put more kids up to be adopted.

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Originally posted by Nephilem:
I don’t think you got the point the criminal can be charged with murder even if the mother was not killed.
Also this does not apply only to murder. If someone hits pregnant women with their car in an accident they can also be liable if the baby dies.

Oh that's what you meant! That's also just the judicial system punishing perpetrators simply because there would be public outrage (by almost anyone) if I hit and killed someone's fetus and only got charged with a traffic altercation. It's all bull.

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I did not say that it had to be a large part of the percentage; I said that it was a large number. Thousand of babies are a large number of babies.

That's a valid point. I don't agree with your argument, but that's a good point.

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I did not say that it had to be a large part of the percentage; I said that it was a large number. Thousand of babies are a large number of babies.

But you failed to state that most of them are A) already dead or B) harmful to the mother.

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That's a questionable law used only to lengthen sentences for murderers

I don’t think you got the point the criminal can be charged with murder even if the mother was not killed.
Also this does not apply only to murder. If someone hits pregnant women with their car in an accident they can also be liable if the baby dies.

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11% happen after 3 months,

I did not say that it had to be a large part of the percentage; I said that it was a large number. Thousand of babies are a large number of babies.

aww. You beat me to it.