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Registered: November 27, 2004
Posts: 1319
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quote: I do not believe I(or anyone else) can say when abortion is necessary or not, we cannot know if someone needs an abortion or not, so there is no way to set limits on the issue.
quote: Why not? That's telling a women what to do with her body and we can't do that. So limitations on when it should be done isn't up to ys right?
please explain to me how I am telling her what to do? I am saying the option should be there, not that she should or shouldn't have an abortion. quote: Yes there could be limits about how much time you can have to abort, but not about if you can abort or not, that should be a choice in my opinion
quote: Putting a time limit on it is still saying if a woman can abort or not. And I don't see why, if you acknowledge that the fetus is living and know that abortion is killing the fetus, you would still think that there should be a choice to it.
No it is not. Putting a time limit is making sure people don't have partial birth abortions for example, they can have one before that, so it is not saying in any way if the person can abort or not. If you don't have money that's another issue we can argue, if the government should pay for it or not.
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. - E.B.White
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Registered: November 30, 2004
Posts: 4514
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quote: I think the mother has more of a right than the fetus, period.
You acknowledged that the fetus is living, so why would the mother have more right to live? quote: I do not believe I(or anyone else) can say when abortion is necessary or not, we cannot know if someone needs an abortion or not, so there is no way to set limits on the issue.
Why not? That's telling a women what to do with her body and we can't do that. So limitations on when it should be done isn't up to ys right? quote: Yes there could be limits about how much time you can have to abort, but not about if you can abort or not, that should be a choice in my opinion
Putting a time limit on it is still saying if a woman can abort or not. And I don't see why, if you acknowledge that the fetus is living and know that abortion is killing the fetus, you would still think that there should be a choice to it.
"I Dream away everyday, Try so hard to disregard The rhythm of t he rain that drops, And coincides with the beating of my heart"
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Registered: November 27, 2004
Posts: 1319
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quote: Originally posted by Bogey: quote: I don't like abortion but I am not for banning it because I think sometimes it is necessary
No, you do like abortion because you think that, at times, it is necessary. Don't say that you don't like it, you just come off as an unreasonable person. You are much happier that abortion exists in our society where young women get pregnant, than you would be if abortion didn't exist, aren't you? quote: The reason I said that is because it sounded like she thought it was fine for women to have to put themselves in danger
No, I don't think that Luva believes that women injuring themselves trying to perform an abortion, is fine. But, the solution to that problem is not to make abortion legal. Anyway, you have to set priorities. What would be better: Stopping the killing of over a million unborn humans each year by making abortion illegal (which may result in some illegal abortions)? - OR - Keep the killing of over one million unborn humans a year, while keeping pretty much all the mothers physically (I am not even going to think about putting "mentally") safe? It should not take any more than common sense to answer this question. quote: again, I don't like abortion but I am not for banning it because I think sometimes it is necessary, and in that case(if it is necessary) the mother has more of a right than the fetus(in my opinion).
The mother has more rights than the fetus if the abortion is necessary, but she doesn't have more of a right than the fetus if it is not necessary? How can this be? She should be always be allowed to kill the unborn because she has more of a right, correct? How can she have more rights at one time, but not at another? I don't understand how you can say that abortion is the mother's choice, but then take away that choice at other times. I think you guys do this because you realize that your stance is faulty and that if you kept it consistent, then you would be for partial birth abortion - and that is a big no, no because that is against common opinion, and thus you guys would clearly look bad.
Sorry I guess that was sort of confusing, I'll clarify: Here's my stance. I think the mother has more of a right than the fetus, period. But I do acknowledge that the fetus is living therefore I don't think killing it is something good(obviously), that's why I said the thing about it being used when necessary and why I don't like it(but that doesn't mean it should be made illegal). BUT I do not believe I(or anyone else) can say when abortion is necessary or not, we cannot know if someone needs an abortion or not, so there is no way to set limits on the issue. Yes there could be limits about how much time you can have to abort, but not about if you can abort or not, that should be a choice in my opinion(so no I am not taking away the choice for some). And by the way, I have said many times I do not agree with partial birth abortion because it is already a person(to me) when you have it, so don't say I am for partial birth abortion, you do not know. And also, I do not give a **** if I look "bad", this is simply my opinion on the issue and I do not care if it makes me look "good" or "bad".
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. - E.B.White
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Registered: February 20, 2004
Posts: 259
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Why should the child pay for the crime of the father? Yes you were raped but should the child pay for that? should the child be killed because it's father was a rapist? should the child die because his father raped its' mother?
ROCK SOLID!
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Registered: December 16, 2004
Posts: 751
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quote: Going through a legal abortion and going through an illegal abortion are two entirely different things. They use the right instruments in a legal abortion, not a coat hanger.
Abortion, whether you turn it upside down, inside out or let it roll or curve or whatever.... it is DEFINITELY WRONG. |
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Registered: December 16, 2004
Posts: 751
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quote: 3rd, the kids may not be adopted but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be given a chance to live. They deserve a chance just as anyone else does.
Yes, i agree with Ohio!!  |
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Registered: December 16, 2004
Posts: 751
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quote: I believe that I would never be able to have an abortion unless I was raped.
But even if you were raped, you ARE carrying a human being inside you. I know that Celtic aborted hers, actually i am not mad anymore for it was a lost cause.... it was already done and i cant do anything about it now. But if there are pregnant teens out there, please, even if you are raped, think not just of yourself, but of the human being inside you. If you do that, you will know what unconditional and selfless love means. |
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Registered: December 16, 2004
Posts: 751
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quote: God loves all his creatures
Yes, God does love all creatures especially the human beings that is why it is wrong to have abortion. |
Registered: November 30, 2004
Posts: 4514
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Times have changed tremendously since the coathanger days. But that's not the point. Less lifes would be at risk if its done illegally.
"I Dream away everyday, Try so hard to disregard The rhythm of t he rain that drops, And coincides with the beating of my heart"
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Registered: January 16, 2004
Posts: 3993
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Going through a legal abortion and going through an illegal abortion are two entirely different things. They use the right instruments in a legal abortion, not a coat hanger.
L'enfer, c'est les autres. -Jean-Paul Sartre
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Registered: April 24, 2003
Posts: 2196
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quote: Fine?It's ok to you for women to get illegal abortions and put themselves in danger?
Don't make it look like I want women to die or something. Less women would be getting abortions, less women would be getting infections and dying. And if they're going to be dumb enough to get an illegal abortion, that's their own fault, not pro-lifer's. quote: I'm worried about all the other women that could not pay it so would recur to dangerous ways.
All forms of abortion are dangerous. quote: No, I don't think that Luva believes that women injuring themselves trying to perform an abortion, is fine
No, I don't think it's fine, you're right Bogey. I also don't think it's fine for women to receive abortions, get infections, run the risk of possibly increasing their risk of breast cancer, becoming sterile, and all the other crap that comes along with abortion. There will be less abortions if it's illegalized. So, Maya, what's worse? More women going through all of that, or less?
"Victories that are easy are cheap. Those only that are worth having are the ones which come as the result of hard fighting"-Henry Ward Beecher
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Registered: May 19, 2004
Posts: 2013
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quote: I don't like abortion but I am not for banning it because I think sometimes it is necessary
No, you do like abortion because you think that, at times, it is necessary. Don't say that you don't like it, you just come off as an unreasonable person. You are much happier that abortion exists in our society where young women get pregnant, than you would be if abortion didn't exist, aren't you? quote: The reason I said that is because it sounded like she thought it was fine for women to have to put themselves in danger
No, I don't think that Luva believes that women injuring themselves trying to perform an abortion, is fine. But, the solution to that problem is not to make abortion legal. Anyway, you have to set priorities. What would be better: Stopping the killing of over a million unborn humans each year by making abortion illegal (which may result in some illegal abortions)? - OR - Keep the killing of over one million unborn humans a year, while keeping pretty much all the mothers physically (I am not even going to think about putting "mentally") safe? It should not take any more than common sense to answer this question. quote: again, I don't like abortion but I am not for banning it because I think sometimes it is necessary, and in that case(if it is necessary) the mother has more of a right than the fetus(in my opinion).
The mother has more rights than the fetus if the abortion is necessary, but she doesn't have more of a right than the fetus if it is not necessary? How can this be? She should be always be allowed to kill the unborn because she has more of a right, correct? How can she have more rights at one time, but not at another? I don't understand how you can say that abortion is the mother's choice, but then take away that choice at other times. I think you guys do this because you realize that your stance is faulty and that if you kept it consistent, then you would be for partial birth abortion - and that is a big no, no because that is against common opinion, and thus you guys would clearly look bad.
Tennis balls are green, not yellow.
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Registered: November 27, 2004
Posts: 1319
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quote: Originally posted by Bogey: quote: Fine?It's ok to you for women to get illegal abortions and put themselves in danger?
What is more just: Having a just law that protects innocent humans who would have been killed? OR Having a law that allows humans to kill other humans more safely? That was an awfully ridiculous question. Anyway, why do you think illegal abortions would be so unsafe? Coat hangers? Give me a break. Most women who got illegal abortions before the legalization of abortion had them done at doctor's offices. In conclusion, less innocent people would die if abortion were illegal. It would be unreasonable to think otherwise. End of story.
no, not end of the story. The reason I said that is because it sounded like she thought it was fine for women to have to put themselves in danger, wich is really annoying if we are talking about rights to life. again, I don't like abortion but I am not for banning it because I think sometimes it is necessary, and in that case(if it is necessary) the mother has more of a right than the fetus(in my opinion). And I'll add, I don't think I am anyone to say when it is necessary or not. So there you go. And about the illegal abortions, no I'm not worried about the women that can pay a doctor to perform it(or travel to a country where it's legal), I'm worried about all the other women that could not pay it so would recur to dangerous ways.
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. - E.B.White
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Registered: May 19, 2004
Posts: 2013
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quote: Fine?It's ok to you for women to get illegal abortions and put themselves in danger?
What is more just: Having a just law that protects innocent humans who would have been killed? OR Having a law that allows humans to kill other humans more safely? That was an awfully ridiculous question. Anyway, why do you think illegal abortions would be so unsafe? Coat hangers? Give me a break. Most women who got illegal abortions before the legalization of abortion had them done at doctor's offices. In conclusion, less innocent people would die if abortion were illegal. It would be unreasonable to think otherwise. End of story.
Tennis balls are green, not yellow.
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Registered: November 27, 2004
Posts: 1319
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quote: Abortion wasn't legal at the time our country was founded. Incase you didn't know, it was legalized in 1973. Now tell me, if our country survived so long before abortion was legalized, why would making it illegal again change anything? We were fine before, we'd be fine now.
Fine?It's ok to you for women to get illegal abortions and put themselves in danger?
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. - E.B.White
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Registered: April 24, 2003
Posts: 2196
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quote: Anyways...I also am sick and tired of ppl trying 2 take the rite 2 our own actions...it would not be rite 4 u women liberators out 2 support something tht u wrkd so hard 2 get: a woman's rite 2 make her own decisions...
No one on here actually worked for that. Our grandmothers did. Besides, at the time that women were "fighting" for the legalization of abortion, the majority of the country was against it. A man named Bernard Nathanson who founded NARAL made stats up about how many people actually believed abortion should be legal.(If you don't believe me, you can look it up.) So really, abortion is legal because abortion industries lied through their teeth, not because women actually fought for it. quote: and ne1 who thnks tht letting the government make our own decisions 4 us is going 2 cause the downfall of our country
Abortion wasn't legal at the time our country was founded. Incase you didn't know, it was legalized in 1973. Now tell me, if our country survived so long before abortion was legalized, why would making it illegal again change anything? We were fine before, we'd be fine now. quote: ...and if u dont believe me look at how many rites have been taken away from us already...
Let's not let them take away nemore....
Exactly what rights have been taken away?
"Victories that are easy are cheap. Those only that are worth having are the ones which come as the result of hard fighting"-Henry Ward Beecher
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Registered: April 24, 2003
Posts: 2196
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quote: so..now tht u kno tht...lets say her bf does get her pregnant...she wood hav 2 go 2 her fathrs house and probably suffer daily beatings tht could very possibly, and most likely, kill the baby along w/her...
meaning tht the only thng tht could save her life was 2 get an abortion
I couldn't exactly understand what you were trying to say, so if I give a stupid reply that has nothing to do with what you said, I'm sorry. You said the only thing that could save her life would be to get an abortion? You gave us some aspects of the scenario, but not all. What state is the girl from? Does she need parental consent to get an abortion? B/c if she does, her father will know she was pregnant anyway and she'll still get beat, right? Say that she doesn't need parental consent. Does she have a job? Where will she get the money for an abortion? Is she going to have the government pay for it with the country's tax dollars? This scenario shows more of an argument to fight against domestic violence than it does to give a proper argument to keep abortion legal.
"Victories that are easy are cheap. Those only that are worth having are the ones which come as the result of hard fighting"-Henry Ward Beecher
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Registered: August 11, 2004
Posts: 4
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quote: I am not saying abortion is right I actually find it very wrong..but if a girl is raped and she gets pregnant I think she should have the choice...I mean how would you feel if you were raped and got pregnant and had the child of a man that had taken something special from you...
Finally sum1 who agrees with me...however.... quote: ...on the other hand if you have sex with you boyfriend and get pregnant that is you own fault and you should not be allowed so I feel they should have limits to abortions.
....although ur rite about it being your own fault i thnk tht an abortion undr these same circumstances could b legit...for instance a frend (lets call her Sally 4 now) has parents who say tht if she wer 2 evr get pregnant she wood b sent 2 her biological father wher her step-father and mother wood seize to exist in her life and refuse 2 help her w/the baby...legit, rite?? aftr all she wood hav brot it upon herself...wrong, for thers a catch... the catch is tht her biological father's ex-wife (her step-mom)divorced him b/c he tried 2 CHOKE her, he started taking CRACK, and on top of all tht he tot her half-bro (who was about 6 yrs old at the time) how roll up a dollar bill to SMOKE drugs.  so..now tht u kno tht...lets say her bf does get her pregnant...she wood hav 2 go 2 her fathrs house and probably suffer daily beatings tht could very possibly, and most likely, kill the baby along w/her... meaning tht the only thng tht could save her life was 2 get an abortion Anyways...I also am sick and tired of ppl trying 2 take the rite 2 our own actions...it would not be rite 4 u women liberators out 2 support something tht u wrkd so hard 2 get: a woman's rite 2 make her own decisions...and ne1 who thnks tht letting the government make our own decisions 4 us is going 2 cause the downfall of our country ...and if u dont believe me look at how many rites have been taken away from us already... Let's not let them take away nemore....
Dream As If You'll Live Forever...Live As If You'll Die
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Registered: May 19, 2004
Posts: 2013
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quote: What if I believe in Buddha? Or Ceridwen? Government issues cannot be based on religion when the country you live in is plagued with different religions beliefs.
I was solely speaking to Ikki here. She was the one who mentioned God. quote: Bogey, I'm a hypocrite.
That's all that needed to be said. As long as you didn't try to weasel out of my question by giving more vague answers, I was going to be fine with your answer.
Tennis balls are green, not yellow.
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Registered: August 17, 2001
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