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Picture of CelticNewAger
Registered: December 11, 2003
Posts: 9501
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quote:
Even the unborns? So, if God loves them, then shouldn't we follow His example and love/respect them as well? I agree with this.


What if I believe in Buddha? Or Ceridwen? Government issues cannot be based on religion when the country you live in is plagued with different religions beliefs.


"Regardless, I have always, and will always, succeed."
Picture of Ohiosweetgirl
Registered: November 30, 2004
Posts: 4514
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3rd, the kids may not be adopted but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be given a chance to live. They deserve a chance just as anyone else does.


"I Dream away everyday, Try so hard to disregard The rhythm of t he rain that drops, And coincides with the beating of my heart"
Picture of 3rdeyecure
Registered: June 27, 2004
Posts: 210
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twistedblonde- it isn't exactly difficult for people to find kids to adopt... it's not like we need more.

-e
Picture of twistedblonde
Registered: December 23, 2004
Posts: 24
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I believe that I would never be able to have an abortion unless I was raped. I think it is somebody's descion even if I am not for it. It is a person's right to decided if they want a baby. If you don't want the baby give it up for adoption instead of aborting it.There is many people in the world who cannot conceive.


..*There�s A Girl In My Mirror Crying Tonight, And There�s Nothing I Can Tell Her To Make Her Feel Alright*..
Picture of Bogey
Registered: May 19, 2004
Posts: 2013
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quote:
All I have to say are two things:
1. It's a cruel world.
2. I'm random and cold when I'm in bad moods.

That was very vague. Was my assumption correct?

quote:
God loves all his creatures.

Even the unborns? So, if God loves them, then shouldn't we follow His example and love/respect them as well? I agree with this.


Tennis balls are green, not yellow.
Picture of Ikki14Reed
Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 5811
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I think we are all interdependent on each other.

God loves all his creatures.


Picture of Kharybdis
Registered: April 15, 2003
Posts: 1396
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Research > anecdotal evidence from a less than reliable source.


Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. Frederick Douglass
Registered: December 16, 2004
Posts: 751
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quote:
Are you? Cause unless you are, how can you say for certain what they do or do not do


No, im not. I'm human. But the original question was that: Why are humans higher creatures. My reasons were reasonable enough. I can say for certain that they do or they don't whatever they do, is because i have seen them with my own eyes. I have pet cats since the day i was born. My dad is a very big fan of pet cats. And if you don't believe when i said that humans are higher than any other creature, then you probably don't believe in God because God made us different from the animals. Look in Genesis.
Picture of Ikki14Reed
Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 5811
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quote:
Are you a dog or a cat???


Are you? Cause unless you are, how can you say for certain what they do or do not do?


Registered: December 16, 2004
Posts: 751
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quote:
Jamaica: How do you know what dogs and cats and other creatures can and cannot do?



duh. This is such a stupid question. My reasons ARE reasonable. Are you a dog or a cat??? Do cats and dogs analyze things??? Do cats and dogs control their sexual desires??? NO!!!!!! I have pet cats. 6 of them and i have seen them mating. If they were humans, they would'nt mate with their brothers or sisters or their own moms. But they are cats, and WE are HIGHER than them, so we have the ability to understand, control and to solve problems. Animals (like cats, dogs, birds, insects) DON'T.

Kharybdis: Maybe you and Ikki should get married. After all, you seem to think humans are not higher than other animals.
Picture of Kharybdis
Registered: April 15, 2003
Posts: 1396
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quote:
Research questions

Given the broad programme of animal cognition, of looking for the animal analogues of human cognitive processes, the areas of study in animal cognition follow more or less from those in human cognitive psychology. However progress in the different areas has been variable. Among the fields of interest are:

Attention

Research has focused on animals' ability to distribute attention between different aspects of a stimulus, and on visual search. As in humans, it appears that sharing attention between stimulus features reduces the capacity to detect any one of them, though there are some ecologically relevant visual search tasks at which particular species show remarkable abilities (for example, pigeons have an extraordinary capacity to pick out grain from substrate).


Categorisation

Following pioneering research by Richard Herrnstein, there has been a mass of research on birds' ability to discriminate between categories of stimuli, including the kinds of ill-defined category that are used in everyday human speech. Birds have been found to learn this kind of task easily, and to transfer correct responding readily to new instances of the categories.


Memory

The categories that have been developed to analyse human memory (short term memory, long term memory, working memory) have been applied to the study of animal memory, and some of the phenomena characteristic of human short term memory (e.g. the serial position effect) have been detected in animals particularly monkeys. However most progress has been made in the analysis of spatial memory, partly in relation to studies of the physiological basis of spatial memory and the role of the hippocampus, and partly in relation to scatter-hoarding animals such as Clark's Nutcracker, certain jays, and certain squirrels, whose ecological niches require them to remember to locations of thousands of caches, often following radical changes in the environment.


Tool use

There are some species that use particular tools as an essential part of their foraging behaviour, for example the Woodpecker Finch of the Galapagos Islands. However these behaviours are often quite inflexible and cannot be applied effectively in new situations. Several species have now been shown to be capable of more flexible tool use. A well known example is Jane Goodall's observation of chimpanzees "fishing" for termites in their natural environment, and captive great apes are often observed to use tools effectively; several species of corvids have also been trained to use tools in controlled experiments.


Reasoning and problem solving

Closely related to tool use is the study of reasoning and problem solving. Many of the data on these issues come from earlier comparative psychologists such as Wolfgang Köhler, rather than recent experiments. It is clear that animals of quite a range of species are capable of solving a range of problems that are argued to involve abstract reasoning; modern research has tended to show that the performances of Köhler's chimpanzees, who could achieve spontaneous solutions to problems without training, were by no means unique to that species, and that apparently similar behaviour can be found in animals usually thought of as much less intelligent, if appropriate training is given.


Language

In addition to the ape-language experiments mentioned above, there have also been more or less successful attempts to teach language or language-like behaviour to some non-primate species, including cetaceans, the parrot Alex, and Great Spotted Woodpeckers.


Consciousness

The sense in which animals can be said to have consciousness or a self-concept has been hotly debated; it is often referred to as the debate over animal minds. The best known research technique in this area is the mirror test devised by Donald Griffin, in which an animal's skin is marked in some way while it is asleep or sedated, and it is then allowed to see its reflection in a mirror; if the animal spontaneously directs grooming behaviour towards the mark, that is taken as an indication that it is aware of itself. Self-awareness, by this criterion, has been reported for chimpanzees and also for some other great apes, and some cetaceans, but not for monkeys. However both the interpretation of such data, and the data themselves, remain controversial.


Deception, empathy, and theory of mind

Related to the issue of self-consciousness is the question of whether an animal can show empathy, i.e. can understand what another animal is thinking. It is usually argued that to show empathy requires you to have a theory of mind, i.e. to attribute mental processes to other individuals, and that without a theory of mind it is impossible for an animal or person to show tactical deception. Experiments to test for theory of mind in animals have mainly been carried out on primates. No convincing evidence has been found for theory of mind in any primate species other than the great apes; the interpretation of the data from great apes is currently controversial, but some researchers are convinced that they do show theory of mind.


Continuing controversy

The broad programme of research into animal cognition has achieved a good deal. Nonetheless, its results and philosophy continue to be debated, on a number of grounds:

* Particular issues within animal cognition, particularly the interpretation of language-learning and self-awareness experiments, have generated major controversies both about the extent of the animals' achievements, and about the correct interpretation of the behaviour observed.

* Many non-experts in the field, and a small minority of experts, find the scientific approach too cautious, and feel that it tends to underrate the intellectual achievements of animals by insisting on behavioural evidence. Studies that demonstrate limited intellectual ability in popular species such as dogs, horses, or dolphins are particularly likely to come under this kind of attack.

* Cognitive psychologists interested in work with humans frequently discount studies of animal cognition. To some extent this may be an effect of history - in the 1950s and 1960s cognitive psychology had to struggle to assert itself against the dominance of behaviorism and animal learning, and the attitudes of those days remain entrenched in influential figures in the field.

* Cognitive scientists have been interested in comparing and contrasting human cognition with artificial intelligence or machine cognition, but have been less interested in including animal cognition in the analysis - despite the fact that the common biological origins of human and animal cognition suggest that there might be greater resemblance, at least in some respects, between human and animal cognition than between human and machine cognition. There is also a minority of cognitive scientists who simply neglect accumulated psychological knowledge about cognition, whether animal or human.

* Those psychologists who are committed to radical behaviourism and the experimental analysis of behaviour discount cognitive analyses of animal behaviour. This is not surprising since for the most part they also reject cognitive analyses of human behaviour, and it is perhaps a category error: in so far as the study of animal cognition exposes new behavioural phenomena, it simply provides more that a radical behaviourist must explain without using mentalistic language
Source: Wikipedia.com - Animal Cognition


Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. Frederick Douglass
Picture of Ikki14Reed
Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 5811
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quote:
from your posts I've been reading, I can only assume that you are indifferent to murder. I mean, if the person really wants to/deserves to live, then he/she will find a way out of getting killed, right? Am I wrong to assume this is what you think? Please clarify your stance.


All I have to say are two things:
1. It's a cruel world.
2. I'm random and cold when I'm in bad moods.

But isn't there something where if you're in danger, you're able to do things you never deemed possible, like your mind and will to live are so possible, you can run faster, be stronger, etc than ever before?

Ohio, ask luva on the fetus fighting back. She has the book.

Jamaica: How do you know what dogs and cats and other creatures can and cannot do?


Picture of Bogey
Registered: May 19, 2004
Posts: 2013
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quote:
Question: Have you ever seen an aborted fetus? Not a picture of one, but an avtual, Honest-to-God aborted fetus?

No, I haven't. I actually haven’t seen many dead people in my life.

quote:
Survival of the Fittest.

You see, that is somewhat what I think, too. Humans are more advanced than any other animals/creatures. Therefore, we (humans as a society) have power over them. Why should we go against our own species? We are all fighting with each other, on the same side.

quote:
According to luva, she has a book that was written by a woman who was almost aborted but fought back. Judging by that, if a fetus wants to live so badly, he'll fight so that he won't be aborted.

Ikki, from your posts I've been reading, I can only assume that you are indifferent to murder. I mean, if the person really wants to/deserves to live, then he/she will find a way out of getting killed, right? Am I wrong to assume this is what you think? Please clarify your stance.


Tennis balls are green, not yellow.
Registered: December 16, 2004
Posts: 751
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why is all wrong Kharybdis???

Maybe you are just saying that because YOU don't know anything about being human. Maybe you are a cat, a dog... or worse, a monster!! Roll Eyes and yes, it is true, humans are the only ones who can do those things that is why we are higher than any other creature.
Picture of Kharybdis
Registered: April 15, 2003
Posts: 1396
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quote:
2. we are the only creatures who can control our minds, our actions (like having sex.....cats and dogs cannot control these)
Wrong.

quote:
3. we are the only creatures capable of understanding
Wrong.

quote:
4. we are the only creatures who are able to analyze problems
Wrong.

quote:
5. we are the only creatures who can make decisions
Wrong.


Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. Frederick Douglass
Picture of Ohiosweetgirl
Registered: November 30, 2004
Posts: 4514
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Ikki, how could a fetus honestly fight back? That is the twisted thing I have ever heard. And the fact is, after it's born is when the 'if it can survive' should come into play. The fact is, it is living and is helpless. That's like saying "some 2 yr olds can fight back, if it wanted to live it should fight back!"


"I Dream away everyday, Try so hard to disregard The rhythm of t he rain that drops, And coincides with the beating of my heart"
Registered: December 16, 2004
Posts: 751
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quote:
Jamaica, why are humans higher creatures?


there are many reasons:
1. we are the only creatures who can think what is right or wrong
2. we are the only creatures who can control our minds, our actions (like having sex.....cats and dogs cannot control these)
3. we are the only creatures capable of understanding
4. we are the only creatures who are able to analyze problems
5. we are the only creatures who can make decisions
Picture of Ikki14Reed
Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 5811
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quote:
Ok, Ikki so then you just said it. Anything living should have the right to live. A fetus is living and should be given the chance of life as well. After all, ALL living creatures should have equal right to life.


Stop twisting my words, Ohio. I said:

quote:
If they can survive.


According to luva, she has a book that was written by a woman who was almost aborted but fought back. Judging by that, if a fetus wants to live so badly, he'll fight so that he won't be aborted.

Have you ever seen an aborted fetus? Not a picture, but an Honest-to-God aborted fetus?

Jamaica, why are humans higher creatures?


Picture of Ohiosweetgirl
Registered: November 30, 2004
Posts: 4514
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Ok, Ikki so then you just said it. Anything living should have the right to live. A fetus is living and should be given the chance of life as well. After all, ALL living creatures should have equal right to life.


"I Dream away everyday, Try so hard to disregard The rhythm of t he rain that drops, And coincides with the beating of my heart"
Registered: December 16, 2004
Posts: 751
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quote:
Ok, so basically any living creature should have equal rights to life?



yes, basically any living creature would have equal right but humans are more important for we are higher creatures than animals like dogs or cats.
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