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Registered: October 28, 2005
Posts: 5354
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quote: I don't think it's fair to punish a child for their parent's crime
And being an unwanted child isn't punishment?
draft beer not soldiers...
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Registered: November 27, 2004
Posts: 1322
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quote: Originally posted by Kate127:
I'm against it, even in the case of rape. I don't think it's fair to punish a child for their parent's crime.
this is the more reasonable stance, if the problem is killing. even though I still disagree with you, at least you are thorough(sp?) on your argument!
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. - E.B.White
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Registered: May 18, 2006
Posts: 3802
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I'm against it, even in the case of rape. I don't think it's fair to punish a child for their parent's crime.
It must be lovely to wake up in the morning and understand everything.
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Registered: October 22, 2006
Posts: 2535
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I agree with Maya.
J'irai bien.
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Registered: November 27, 2004
Posts: 1322
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quote: Originally posted by Torin2482:
In my opinion regardless of what stage the fetus is in you are ending a potential life form. You arn't giving a chance to something that was your fault for creating. In the case of rape, i understand why an abortion may be used but all other situations that involve you consenting to sex, sorry, your fault and to safcrifice someones potential life because you "F"ed-up is rediculous.
love this argument, hahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah! ok...now that I'm done laughing I can respond. ok so explain to me where the problem is, the killing or it being your fault? if the problem is the killing, well then it should be wrong be it rape or be it whatever that caused the pregnancy, it's still killing. if the problem is that it's your fault, then I say you can't force someone to have a baby as punishment.
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. - E.B.White
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Registered: September 06, 2005
Posts: 115
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That's why adoption is so much better but some abortions are because the girl is so young that if she does want to keep that baby then it will ruin her life and the baby's. My cousin is doing this now, she decided to have her kid when she was 16 or so, and she didn't put it up for adoption or anything she just kept the child. She's living in a really bad area in Hayward, California and she can barely make end's meet. Maybe that's not entirely the kid's fault, but if she hadn't had that child, then she could be in college. Some people don't want to be reminded of what they did or what they were doing, and, they pay the price for it too. You have to realize that people just don't go in there happy and just go on with their lives. Another one of my friends had an abortion at 13 because of rape, but, she suffered some depression after it. These girls and women who get an abortion pay the price, it isn't free and it certainly isn't without consequences.
<3 "War is not the answer" "Where is the love?" <3
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Registered: December 13, 2006
Posts: 88
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In my opinion regardless of what stage the fetus is in you are ending a potential life form. You arn't giving a chance to something that was your fault for creating. In the case of rape, i understand why an abortion may be used but all other situations that involve you consenting to sex, sorry, your fault and to safcrifice someones potential life because you "F"ed-up is rediculous.
"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life." Theodore Roosevelt
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Registered: December 19, 2006
Posts: 42
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quote: Originally posted by luvabug22: quote: I mean, it's proven that animals can suffer, while the suffering of a fetus is constantly debated. (I won't say whether a fetus can or cannot suffer because I simply do not know)
Since you don't know, I'll tell you. The suffering of a fetus during an abortion is not debatable, it's a fact. They kick and they fight. If they couldn't feel anything, they wouldn't do that.
Really? They do kick and fight? At 12 weeks, a fetus is incapable of processing any thought, incapable of simple nervous system functions, and doesn't have aveoli on their lungs yet (making it impossible to breath without help). That makes me think that if a fetus can't even breath on it's own, then it can't fight during an abortion. Especially considering the fact that 88% of abortions occur before the 12th week.
The moral this time is girls make boys cry.
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Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3717
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quote:
We don't have to eat meat to survive anymore. It isn't a requirement.
No it isn't, but it is a human instinct to crave meat. Why? Because we ate it for thousands of years. You can b*tch and moan all you want, humans are going to keep eating meat whether it's ethical or not. So what if there are pestiscides and other crap in my meat, I can buy the organic stuff. You can show me the most disgusting pictures of slaughtered animals all you want, it'll only make me hungrier.
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Registered: December 14, 2003
Posts: 381
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quote:
Primitive??? It would be nice if you could summarize your reasons for calling the consumption of meat a primitive habit.
We did it in the stone age because we had to to survive. (especially in the ice age) Now that we are one of the most successful species on the face of the planet and most of us don't have to fight for our food anymore there isn't really much of a reason to eat meat except if you're starving on some desert island or something. (or whatever have-to-do-it-to-survive situations you can think of) We can choose to eat it or choose not to eat it. It's as simple as that. quote:
If humans didn't eat meat, you wouldn't be here.
When have I ever denied this? quote:
yes we did have to eat meat in the stone age, but that was to survive, not because the cave men liked the taste of it. (back then they had to go through a lot of trouble to get it and they probably did it only if they had to do it to survive) Now we don't need it, we usually eat it just because it tastes good (and usually it's only in how you flavor or season it that makes it taste good anyway).
The whole reason why I said it was primitive was because early humans did eat meat. Human beings are pretty well off now. We don't have to eat meat to survive anymore. It isn't a requirement. Alright??? Why is it when I say this sort of thing nobody listens? HUMANS ATE MEAT IN THE STONE AGE. There! I said it! Now stop yelling at me about it!
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Registered: January 15, 2003
Posts: 3717
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quote:
Maybe someday people will leave the primitive habit of eating meat
Primitive??? It would be nice if you could summarize your reasons for calling the consumption of meat a primitive habit. Just because I enjoy baby back ribs every once in a while doesn't make me a neaderthal. I eat it because it simply tastes good and it gives me engery. If humans didn't eat meat, you wouldn't be here. Take an Anthropology class or something and learn why we eat the things we eat. Back on topic.... I hate children. We don't need anymore. Abortion rules.
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Registered: December 14, 2003
Posts: 381
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quote:
She's not eatin' bacon, not eatin' sausage
and she won't eat eggs,
Not eatin' chicken, not eatin' turkey,
she won't have a steak,
But I just can't help feelin' sorry
for this poor little lettuce head
You know, I can't stop cryin'
'Cause I know this broccoli's dead
Vegetarian, I'm not a vegetarian
Vegetarian...she's a
Poor little cow, little sheep
Little fish how can I sleep?
When carrots are bleedin'
Plants are screamin' and tomatoes cry
You say "it's not so bad
They're only vegetables", that's what you said
Maybe I'm a murderer, but I'm hungry
And they're better off dead
Save a plant, eat a cow
I want beef, I want it now!
I'm gonna eat it cause it's red!
I'm gonna eat it cause it's dead!
maybe I should eat it raw
Let the blood run down my jaw
I'd eat people if it was legal
I'd eat people if it was legal!
- Say "Ten", Reel Big Fish
 I feel sorry for you and Reel Big Fish. quote:
Since this animal rights thing seems to have been going on for awhile now and I have to get off soon. Why in the world are you talking about animal rights with the topic of abortion?
Because luvabug equates abortion with the holocaust I asked her what she thought of PETA's holocaust of the animals campaign and it all started from there. As you can see I have apologized for being off-topic several times here. quote:
I highly doubt that there will be laws against eating animals ever.
I never said there would be laws against eating animals. Maybe someday people will leave the primitive habit of eating meat behind and it won't have to be outlawed but that's not really the point of our discussion, is it? quote:
So eating meat is unhealthy? Explain that one.
Oooh, you've opened up a can of worms there. For one, name a food you can get food poisoning from. Meat? You guessed it. The sometimes deadly bacterias E. coli, listeria, campylobacter and salmonella often come from meat products. In fact, a 1995 study by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) found that more than 99 percent of broiler chicken carcasses had detectable levels of E. coli. The US eats more meat than any other country in the world. Half of all Americans have or will develop heart disease in their lifetime. Coincidince? I think not. The top three killers of Americans today-heart disease, cancer and stroke-can be linked to the consumption of meat and animal products. For example, only animal products have cholesterol. Meat, eggs and dairy, they all have it while other foods don't. The average cholesterol level in the US is 210. The average cholesterol level are US vegetarians is 161 and the average cholesterol level of US vegans is 133. Now on to cancer: (sorry for using copy-and-paste info here, it's just faster) The American Cancer Society, discussing all cancer, points out that "about one-third of the 500,000 cancer deaths that occur in the United States each year is due to dietary factors ... Although the committee recognizes that no diet can guarantee full protection against any disease, we believe that our recommendations offer the best nutrition information currently available to help Americans reduce their risk of cancer." The society's top two recommendations are: "1. Choose most of the foods you eat from plant sources," and "2. Limit your intake of high-fat foods, particularly from animal sources." Vegan diets maximize the foods that help us fight cancer-fiber-packed grains and beans and phytochemical-packed fruits and vegetables-and minimize the foods that cause cancer. Combine these two factors, according to the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, and the scientific evidence is clear: "Vegetarians are about 40 percent less likely to get cancer than nonvegetarians, regardless of other risks such as smoking, body size, and socioeconomic status." One study compared cancer rates of vegetarians and meat-eaters in 34,000 Americans. The results showed that those who avoided meat, fish, and poultry had dramatically lower rates of prostate, ovarian, and colon cancer compared to meat-eaters. An 11-year-long German study involving more than 800 vegetarian men found their cancer rates were less than half those of the general public. The lowest cancer rates were found in those who had avoided meat for 20 years or more. Studies in Japan and Sweden also have shown lower risk among vegetarians. It seems that with every bite of meat, we increase our risk of cancer. Luckily, we can eliminate animal products from our diets and replace them with vegetable proteins that can protect our health instead of harm it. Dr. T. Colin Campbell, arguably the foremost epidemiological researcher alive today, argues that animal proteins are the prime carcinogen in meat and dairy products. Says Dr. Campbell, "[H]uman studies also support this carcinogenic effect of animal protein, even at usual levels of consumption. … No chemical carcinogen is nearly so important in causing human cancer as animal protein." But fat is a culprit, too: Higher-fat diets raise estrogen levels, whereas plant-based diets keep it at a safe level, which doesn't promote the growth of cancer cells. Luckily, fiber-a nutrient plentiful in vegetarian diets-helps our bodies eliminate excess estrogen, thus cutting cancer risk. Click this for more info on carcinogens in meat: http://www.peta.org/feat/meat/meat.aspwww.goveg.com has health-related info as well. quote:
I know I sound heartless, but I don't think I could ever give up meat, even if I wanted to. It's just a part of my diet that I couldn't give up, and on top of that I think it tastes good.
Well I haven't been a vegetarian all my life you know! In fact, I went veg just this year. How about having one vegetarian meal, one day a week? It's better than nothing and it's easier than just going cold turkey (pun intended  ). www.meatout.org (sign up for their "meatout mondays" e-newsletter) You could go veg for lent for example: (I'm assuming you're Christian from your signature, sorry if you're not  ) www.veg4lent.org Go here to request a free DVD with a bunch of videos on it: (with meet your meat, chew on this and more) http://www.goveg.com/feat/chewonthis/Here's an article I found on another benefit of going veg: Hungry world 'must eat less meat' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3559542.stmI'll leave you to think for now.
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Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 5811
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quote:
I highly doubt that there will be laws against eating animals ever.
I don't think so either. I was just curious if it had been proven a necessity or not. (Just to let you know). quote:
Why in the world are you talking about animal rights with the topic of abortion?
It's a nice break from ramming our heads down each others' throats. Plus, it adds perspective of 'are humans really better?'
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Registered: April 24, 2003
Posts: 2196
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quote:
But has it been scientifically proven that it's a necesity?
I don't know, neither do I care. I highly doubt that there will be laws against eating animals ever. quote:
They think they need it be healthy when nothing could be further from the truth.
So eating meat is unhealthy? Explain that one. quote:
If you are concerned about the impact of vegetable agriculture on the environment, you should know that a vegetarian diet is better for the environment than a meat-based one, since the vast majority of grains and legumes raised today are used as feed for cattle. Rather than eating animals, such as cows, who must consume 16 pounds of vegetation in order to convert them into 1 pound of flesh, you can save many more plants’ lives (and destroy less land) by eating vegetables directly.
I know I sound heartless, but I don't think I could ever give up meat, even if I wanted to. It's just a part of my diet that I couldn't give up, and on top of that I think it tastes good. quote:
So let me get this straight. You don't want animals tortured for no reason but if they're tortured to feed humans who can live without eating them you're "all for it"?
Yup. quote:
Why? Surely human fetuses and animal fetuses can both feel pain, right?
Once human abortion is abolished, I suppose I would start worrying about animal abortion. There really isn't any need to abort animals, so you have a point in saying that it's wrong. quote:
Why in the world are you talking about animal rights with the topic of abortion?
Not sure.
"Victories that are easy are cheap. Those only that are worth having are the ones which come as the result of hard fighting"-Henry Ward Beecher
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Registered: May 19, 2004
Posts: 2013
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quote:
They think they need it be healthy when nothing could be further from the truth.
That is true. It is proven that meat-eaters' risks of having heart probelms and cancer are much higher than people who abstain from meat. Also, a huge misconception is that if you don't eat meat, you don't get enough protein. That is also terribly false. Almost any food gives you some protein. So, if you don't live off candy alone, it is virtually impossible not to get enough protein. quote:
Why in the world are you talking about animal rights with the topic of abortion?
That is a great qestion.
Tennis balls are green, not yellow.
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Registered: September 14, 2004
Posts: 278
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Since this animal rights thing seems to have been going on for awhile now and I have to get off soon. Why in the world are you talking about animal rights with the topic of abortion?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be quoted, then used against you.
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Registered: April 15, 2003
Posts: 1396
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She's not eatin' bacon, not eatin' sausage and she won't eat eggs, Not eatin' chicken, not eatin' turkey, she won't have a steak, But I just can't help feelin' sorry for this poor little lettuce head You know, I can't stop cryin' 'Cause I know this broccoli's dead Vegetarian, I'm not a vegetarian Vegetarian...she's a Poor little cow, little sheep Little fish how can I sleep? When carrots are bleedin' Plants are screamin' and tomatoes cry You say "it's not so bad They're only vegetables", that's what you said Maybe I'm a murderer, but I'm hungry And they're better off dead Save a plant, eat a cow I want beef, I want it now! I'm gonna eat it cause it's red! I'm gonna eat it cause it's dead! maybe I should eat it raw Let the blood run down my jaw I'd eat people if it was legal I'd eat people if it was legal! - Say "Ten", Reel Big Fish
Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. Frederick Douglass
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Registered: December 14, 2003
Posts: 381
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quote:
Well, let's see...the majority of the world that eats meat.
They think they need it be healthy when nothing could be further from the truth. quote:
I wonder how the plants feel about animal rights. I bet they're just dieing to have the world turn vegan. Poor plants. Why should all the plants have to be eaten and all the animals live?? I WANT PLANT RIGHTS!
I know you're being sarcastic (at least I hope you are), but I'll answer this anyway. Poor plants my a**! "I wonder how plants feel about animal rights." They don't feel anything because they don't have a brain or nervous system! Ugh, some people... “What about plants?” There is currently no reason to believe that plants experience pain because they are devoid of central nervous systems, nerve endings, and brains. It is theorized that animals are able to feel pain so that they can use it for self-protection purposes. For example, if you touch something hot and feel pain, you will learn from the pain that you should not touch that item in the future. Since plants cannot move from place to place and do not need to learn to avoid certain things, this sensation would be superfluous. From a physiological standpoint, plants are completely different from mammals. Unlike animals’ body parts, many perennial plants, fruits, and vegetables can be harvested over and over again without dying. If you are concerned about the impact of vegetable agriculture on the environment, you should know that a vegetarian diet is better for the environment than a meat-based one, since the vast majority of grains and legumes raised today are used as feed for cattle. Rather than eating animals, such as cows, who must consume 16 pounds of vegetation in order to convert them into 1 pound of flesh, you can save many more plants’ lives (and destroy less land) by eating vegetables directly. quote:
I eat them because I get hungary.
People eat junk food like fast food and chips and etc when they get hungry, but that's not a good excuse for eating junk food. (just another example) quote:
I don't want animals dieing horrible deaths for no purpose, but if it's to feed people, I'm all for it, baby.
So let me get this straight. You don't want animals tortured for no reason but if they're tortured to feed humans who can live without eating them you're "all for it"? You're one crazy animal welfarist. Maybe the Humane Farming Association would suit your interests more: www.hfa.orgI guess the big question here is this: Why eat an animal if you don't need to to live a healthy life? quote:
No, I haven't. But that's horrible.
You're damn right it is. quote:
Animal abortion doesn't bother me, human abortion does.
Why?  Surely human fetuses and animal fetuses can both feel pain, right?
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Registered: August 17, 2001
Posts: 5811
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quote:
Well, let's see...the majority of the world that eats meat.
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